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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,

So I have a 2016 cb500f with less than 3k on it and sometimes it has trouble starting, mainly morning's or later afternoons but it appears to be a bit random.
At first it appeared to be more of an issue featuring the clutch and sidestand so I replaced the worn neutral switch. This didn't fix the problem so was just coincidental at the time when it was playing up.
I then called out the breakdown when it wouldn't start, he connected his battery pack to it and it then started, he said it was the battery which I them replaced with a Yuasa, problem still persists I take the battery off to charge and it's full. Volt meter also shows fine.
It just seems random, could it be something to do with an automatic choke or temperature sensor?

Sometimes I have to completely turn the throttle for it to kick in to life when starting, sometimes the starter just needs pressing for 3 seconds, sometimes it starts perfectly fine. It can even be a bugger starting after going for a decent ride and being off for 5 mins.

Presume the Motul - 5000 10W-40 4T in it doesn't have anything to do with it, It was having issues, not as bad, before this service.....

Many thanks in advance for any help




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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks, I was going to try that next although if in neutral I wouldn't have thought that would effect it.... But will try.
 

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Is it turning-over/cranking? If yes, then it is not a safety switch. The safety switches work the same as the big red Off/Run switch. If not in the correct position, they won't allow the bike to crank or run.

How long has this been happening? Same tank of fuel or across multiple tanks? What does your voltmeter read?

A cranking but hard starting situation is often either a battery not strong enough to spin the motor over as fast as possible, or a fuel issue. Old fuel, bad fuel, water in fuel, etc.

Try:

1. Before turning on your key, physically shake the bike back and forth a few times. This will mix up the fuel and prevent any water/condensation sitting at the bottom from being the first thing getting pumped in. Secret: water doesn't burn well.

2. Before attempting to start, roll the bike forward/back a bit to make sure the clutch plates aren't sticking together. Start the bike in Neutral WITH the clutch lever pulled in. All of this will reduce friction to allow the motor to spin up as quickly as possible for an efficient start-up.

3. Once started, go burn up that tank of fuel and top off with fresh stuff. During the colder months, keep it topped up as much as reasonable. Less fuel=more air space=more condensation build-up.

Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Link to video of it starting after leisure time larry's top tips:


Obviously this has only worked once so will need to investigate it further. Shake/wobble dance will now be factored into my start up routine....

It has happened over many many thanks of fuel, Sainsbury's super unleaded used since new..... Bad? Build up over time?

Clutch plates - sometimes happens when clutch is pulled so should rule that out....

Water? Worse in the damp, could be getting in somewhere?

Sigh......

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I am not aware of any problems using Sainsbury's petrols with bikes. Although I have not used them regularly, and only the "super" labelled version a few times.
 

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I believe the european models have an ignition disabler built into the wiring system as stock. Does that prevent the engine from turning over or from firing up? I would be suspicious that its the disabler that is preventing the engine from starting. Maybe the antenna has been damaged? Might need a dealer to look at it, or maybe your actual key is failing!! Do oyu have a spare key, does it start more easily with that other key? Just guessing as I am not sure how the disabler actually works on the european models.

Gary
 

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Second get a multimeter and then get back to us so we can help with where/what voltages to look at!
Cant fix an electrical problem without a meter!!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Yep, I have a multimeter. Where should I check?

With the old battery it measure 12.4v before ignition switched on, dropped very slightly on switching on ignition, went up to +14v when running so I was happy with alternator.
Green flag guy said it may have the volts but not the Amps to kick start and said to try a new battery, hence why I got one.


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Discussion Starter #12
Also bike gets stored outside the front of a terraced house so can't really have a charger attached, although have been looking at them recently. This issue has only really surface the past year and I've had it since new (4years).

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Also bike gets stored outside the front of a terraced house so can't really have a charger attached, although have been looking at them recently. This issue has only really surface the past year and I've had it since new (4years).

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It sounds like it stands idle most of the time. Can't you get leads to it. Maybe extend charger wires to the bike rather than leaving the charger near the bike.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I Was looking at some of the tecmate's as they have really long leads but I have no power on the inside front of the house either. I think the trickle chargers are mainly for garages. It gets used daily, albeit for short journeys, just had a problem lately.... And the wierd bit is if I go out for a decent run, fully charged and hot (1hr)I can turn it off and then on again and I get the issue

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I Was looking at some of the tecmate's as they have really long leads but I have no power on the inside front of the house either. I think the trickle chargers are mainly for garages. It gets used daily, albeit for short journeys, just had a problem lately.... And the wierd bit is if I go out for a decent run, fully charged and hot (1hr)I can turn it off and then on again and I get the issue

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Must be short journeys at that mileage.
 

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Just guessing as I am not sure how the disabler actually works on the european models.
There is a "HISS" indicator on the panel which lights up when you turn the bike on, then goes off once the chip in the key had been read. If the immobilizer cannot read the key the indicator will stay lit and the bike will not attempt to start.

On the video it is the right-most red light, just inside the yellow ABS one. So you can see that is all working correctly. Plus, of course, because the bike is trying to start.

Sometimes my bike dies like that if the battery has drained a little too low. But I just hold the starter in for a minute. If that is not enough, release a moment then hold for another minute. Eventually it starts.

Although it sounds like the charge is not a problem either, maybe holding the starter for longer may help start the bike, if not resolve the cause?
 

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Also bike gets stored outside the front of a terraced house so can't really have a charger attached, although have been looking at them recently. This issue has only really surface the past year and I've had it since new (4years).
Don't worry about charging the battery while in the bike; there's absolutely no reason to have it connected when charging from an external source, pretty much all manuals that come with battery chargers advise to disconnect the battery from the vehicle while charging anyway.
 

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Sounds a heck of a lot like a fuel issue. Dirty injectors maybe?
Optimate battery tender is meant to be connected to the battery while on the bike with the remote leads that come with it. It constantly monitors battery condition. Modern electronics and control units perform better with correct input voltage.
 

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Since a new battery was installed and the problem persisted randomly, I'd safely assume the battery is not the problem. This bike doesn't need much battery power to start anyway.

Try opening and closing the gas cap to equalize the pressure inside the gas tank.

Was the new Neutral sensor installed correctly, using the original washer? Someone said the included washer (new part) has a different thickness - do not use it.

To test the Neutral sensor, remove the wire, set multimeter to ohm, red test lead on the sensor plug (where the wire was attached), black test lead on the motor, just beside the neutral sensor, not touching the sensor directly). It should read <200 ohm (it is variable, goes up & down). Repeat 10 times, each time change the gear from 1st (or 2nd) to neutral. Alternatively, in neutral, put pressure on gear lever up or down (with multimeter connected), the ohm should be continuously changing but it should be <200 ohm. (<150 ohm would be better).

Note: ohm value is base on my own multimeter readings of a new vs worn neutral sensor. Testing can only be done while installed on the motor (the shift drum & motor itself completes the neutral sensor local-circuit).
 
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