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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
As mentioned above very well - and this in your posts tells us a bunch -
"I'm still experimenting (in a parking lot because it's hard to focus this hard on the dash without it being hazardous otherwise)... sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It's easier in the 2nd to 3rd or higher shifts, but it's still a bit notchy "

Your eyes do not belong on the dash no matter if you've only been riding 2 weeks or 20 years, and even if your "practicing".

You need to shift out of 1st early and at a lower rpm then most gears. IF you must start out in 2nd. You wont hurt anything.
You have to enjoy riding more and stop nitpicking on this thing.
If mine jerks a bit when I get on it from 1st to 2nd I DONT CARE.
You're not wrong.

I spend more time nitpicking on this because I just don't think it's normal - there's just a weird notchy feel in that 1 - 2 click...and yeah yeah, I know N sits in the middle and it's a longer throw etc etc, but I've ridden several bikes, and none felt this strange. Really not sure how to describe it any better. It's not a crunch or a grind (I had that, and it was an actual fault that was replaced under warranty), but more like a two-stage click that I feel (only SOMETIMES) in the lever itself where it feels like something is catching on my toe. And trust me, I'm not pussyfooting the pedal...I give a good balanced and deliberate full boot.

I don't care about jerkiness, and I'm actually very smooth. On the open road, I'm 100% focused on the road; I simply try to replicate in a wide empty closed off environment to see what works and what doesn't.

I noticed actually it's more prone to happen in lower rpm than higher. If I shift at 20km/hr vs. 30 for example (hardly pushing it....).
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Didn't want to start a new thread so I am adding it to this one. I hade a new top ball joint and lever on the transmission under warranty because of free play. Now the lower one has gone. So I removed the old joint, drilled the lever out to 8mm, fitted a sleeve, and bolted on a 6mm rose joint. Boy oh boy what a difference, it's now better than perfect. I will replace the top one as soon as it gets any Play in it whatsoever.
I ran into a post on the CB650R forum that was almost identical to my experience. 5 page thread that details just how vague the shifter can be, often getting stuck in N, giving that notchy feel I'm trying so hard to describe etc. On that thread, shifter joints and shift shaft freeplay came up a lot. I checked, and I see exactly what they're talking about and what you might have experienced; you put the slightest upward pressure (with just a finger even), and there's just a general sense of "looseness" - not on the spindle and arm clamp, but the whole set up just feels vague/wobbly.

I ordered a new linkage (top and bottom) and pedal, and I also ordered a gear shift support that goes on the shift shaft and supposedly removes that extra rotation freeplay because of how far out the it comes. If THAT doesn't solve the "issue" then, I'll just live with it.

Curious to see what your set up looks like, hard to visualize...
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
If someone can tell me how to upload a photo I will show you my mod. I looked for a gear shift support but couldn't find one, where did your's come from.
Ebay has them, but also RaceTorx (the more premium one) is what everyone swears by. Ships from the UK actually (y).

How to attach a photo: click on the icon I vaguely circled and drop in or select a photo from your camera album.

Rectangle Font Parallel Screenshot Number
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·

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I've been fiddling around quite a bit with different shift points on my 2020 CB500F (bought new, now has about 11k kms) to try and get buttery upshifts. Earlier last year I had issues with truly horrendous gear crunching that turned out to be a warped clutch, which was replaced. All is still well, and the crunchiness is gone, but now I've been trying to learn the conditions for always getting an almost seemless 1-2 shift. It works sometimes, but other times 2nd goes in with a bit more "click" or thud (thankfully not a crunch like it used to).

I've worked it down to timing of the throttle/clutch/upshift movement where I have to almost exaggerate my movements to get it exactly right with a tiny bit of shift pedal preload. But what I've been experimenting with lately is trying to get all that movement to happen in the right rev range for 2nd. I went on gear commander site and input all the different values required, and the site spat out a rev range for all the gears and the wheel speed in each gear at different rpm intervals.

Here's my question for rev matching (on upshifts):

I know the idea is not to lose so much rpm when trying to shift up (waiting too long before clicking up for example), but am I supposed to be matching the rpm that would be around the same speed I'm shifting at for the upcoming gear?

Here's a sample - I like shifting around 4k rpm, or a little less if bike is still cold, or a little more if bike is all warmed up. So, at 4300rpm, 1st gear wheel speed is at around 27/28kph. The table shows that in second gear, 27kph should be around 2800rpm. Is the objective here to let the rpms drop from 4300 to 2800 just as I click up into 2nd? Thats a 1500rpm drop, and higher if I'm stretching 1st gear a bit more before I shift (6k to 4k if shifting around 40kph).

Have I got the idea right? If so, how accurate do I need to be?

I'm still experimenting (in a parking lot because it's hard to focus this hard on the dash without it being hazardous otherwise)... sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It's easier in the 2nd to 3rd or higher shifts, but it's still a bit notchy (almost like 2 clicks to get into gear, or a slap sound) if I don't get it right, which is not often.
I very rarely use the clutch when up-shifting.
 

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That looks great... definitely can see the sturdiness in comparison to stock. Nice.

Do you have to grease the ball joints often since they're exposed?

Lastly, sorry to hassle you, but can you snap a pic that shows the arm side on the spindle as well please? 👍
How do you mean the arm side, do you mean engine side of the joint. By the way grease well before fitting and put some oil in as well. You just have to squirt a bit of oil in when you feel it's necessary. Just had my first ride with it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
I very rarely use the clutch when up-shifting.
Yeah, it's great in the 2-6 range and it's lightening quick and smooth with a quick roll off and shifter preload action. Feels so nice, with a little burble/pop/snort from the exhaust...so satisfying. I don't do it often, but know the technique very well.

You know, just had an idea of how best to describe the feeling I'm getting. Essentially, it SOMETIMES feels like I'm hitting a "positive neutral finder" that is common on Kawis to help the rider find N. That's what's "catching" on my toe when that happens, and basically I have to push up even harder and it ends up feeling like a two-stage click as opposed to one fluid motion. Not sure this feature exists on the CB500, or why it happens when the bike is very clearly rolling at speed, or why it only happens sometimes regardless of how consistent my shift action is. 🤦‍♂️ 🤷‍♂️

In any case, thanks for all the feedback in general, and I'll see if the gear shift support helps once I get it installed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 · (Edited)
I got a gear shift support off eBay...should have went with the real deal from RaceTorx because what arrived was garbage that didn't fit.

Anyway...I put in almost 20 hours in the saddle this weekend and experienced probably the most satisfying shifts I've ever had on this bike. I'm really not sure why or how to explain it (and it goes against everything most people said about the speed of the shift action), but I discovered that if I roll off the throttle and clutch in but then count "1, 2" before slapping the shifter up at the end of "2", it slots in perfectly and very positively (it just sounds and feels right, like how a change should be...sounds like when it slaps into 1st from N). I also ran out of room to adjust the height of the pedal using just the rod, so I moved it up one notch on the spline itself so I can fit my boot better. Was starting to get sloppy again towards the end of the day, but I think it was just overall fatigue preventing me from being coordinated with my shift action.

Edit: I was talking specifically about the 1-2 shift. The other shifts were fine without a time gap. Puzzling.
 

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Well that's good to hear you have a plan, and eventually it will become second nature. The only thing I would say is treat your self to a gear shift support, I changed one gear rod joint for a rose joint as you know and it is like night and day by removing that little bit of free play. So I think that bit of flex you have in the shift arm would be better off with a support fitted.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
Well that's good to hear you have a plan, and eventually it will become second nature. The only thing I would say is treat your self to a gear shift support, I changed one gear rod joint for a rose joint as you know and it is like night and day by removing that little bit of free play. So I think that bit of flex you have in the shift arm would be better off with a support fitted.
Yeah, planning on going with the real support as opposed to the knock off, which I should have done in the first place because I'm arguing with a Chinese company for a refund and it's like pulling teeth. If the shifts continue to be this positive (which they have been this morning), then I think I've cracked it and like you said eventually it'll become second nature.

I'm astonished at how simple it turned out to be...all this messing around and trial and error for thousands of kms, and so much preload work and mental effort to try and get it right; all it took was a half a second delay in the foot work to slow things down a bit 🤦‍♂️ 🤷‍♂️

Skinnier shoes seems to work better as well, and no preload necessary - just slap up and go.
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
@ADIOS600 - I don't think the shift support will be necessary after all. I swapped the entire linkage assembly and greased the pivot bolt and seals, and I'm now 100% convinced that the iffy gear changes were due to some sort of issue in the shifter pedal itself. I did the swap in stages (top arm first, then rod and so on), and the difference that swapping the pedal itself and greasing the pivot bolt was night and day.

Slowing the foot work a bit helped over the last few rides as I mentioned before, but it would still on occasion misbehave. Putting in the new pedal immediately felt very different; now I can flick up into gear the moment I roll off the throttle and it clicks in perfectly. I want to adjust the height for better downshifts since it's a little high and I have to angle my foot in a weird way to tap down, but now I'm scared to touch it 🤣.
 
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