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It is interesting to follow the back & forth on this topic. I am in the quiet is better group, but I certainly have noticed that one of the most common mods people do is to change out the muffler be it for weight, looks or sound. OK! No worries, to each his own. Please just try to keep it legal & not over the top obnoxious. We have enough detractors on the road as is. Thanks. Rubber side down mates.
 
These days it's just as likely to be a modified pickup truck or a sportscar riding up behind the cager as it is a moto. I think to a point people really enjoy a certain sound of their bikes, after some decibel point though, it is unnatural to actually enjoy it. I imagine it's annoying to alot of people. It's unnaturally loud and seems to summon something primeval in the body's response to it. Danger. I also agree with others here that the best protection on the road is an awareness of the surroundings, maintaining your bubble, staying visible, keeping your eyes in the rear view mirror as well as ahead, e.g. riding safely.
 
I have to say I site on the fence here.

I love my '16 F the exhaust is just right for long distance and early work starts.

My '15 Enfield GT has what can only be described as minimal silencing through a classic pipe and it sounds fantastic. Loud, yes, but in a slow thumpy way.

I do find a lot of modern high revving bikes are horrible sounding when load and revved hard. I loved the carbon can on a Ducati I had at tick over but it was deafening at speed. Harley's are the same to me, great at tickover, horrible at speed ( well what they call speed)
 
If loud pipes don't help make your presence known to others then there is no need for truck and train air horns, police and ambulance sirens and smoke detector alarms (to name a few) be as loud as they are either.

Some engines sound like **** when under-muffled (e.g. Harley twins.) I can't help that but it won't stop me from seeking a more voluminous level somewhere between OE sound levels dictated by bureaucratic suits in Brussels (especially Euro 4 of late...) or Washington and the douchebags running unmuffled big-inch hit-and-miss antique engines. Somewhere in that spectrum is attention-getting, presence-announcing sound levels that are not otherwise obnoxious. That's where I seek to be.
There's a difference between horns and sirens, which are used in emergency situations, and a constant high level racket that really serves no practical purpose. If you drive around with your horn blaring all the time, you'll get a ticket. If people like loud pipes, that's fine. But they should be honest with themselves and admit they like it just because it's loud and they don't care about how it affects other people.

If I ever see scientific evidence that loud pipes make people safer, I'll admit they work for that purpose. All evidence I've seen to date says that's not true.

But I'll probably never appreciate it when someone tears butt down my street and wakes up my kids at 2am.
 
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There's a difference between horns and sirens, which are used in emergency situations, and a constant high level racket that really serves no practical purpose.
First, "high" is a subjective term. I've already stated that my desire is an exhaust louder than stock but not "unmuffled." I don't believe this has to be made an all or none issue and see no sense in building up strawmen and forcing the debate in that direction.

Second, it is your opinion regarding the purpose served. Sirens and horns are loud because that gets people's attention, full-stop. The anti-sound crew should be arguing that more careful driving on the part of first responders is all that's needed, not more noise, but they don't because they concede the point: sound works.

Humans generally rely on just 2 senses to know about us on the road: sight and sound. Why effectively advocate removing 50% of their sensory input for detecting us in their midst?

My Tuono (100% stock exhaust at the moment) has a valve in the exhaust, Below 5500 the exhaust path is more convoluted and ends up being very -- almost "whisper" -- quiet; above 5500 the valve opens providing a straighter shot for the exhaust through the silencer resulting in more torque and, yes, a higher sound level. The switchover point is very clean and in 1st gear in city traffic it's easy to add a few kph and open and the valve and then lose a few kph and close it again with little change in engine RPM or vehicle speed.

I've got lots of anecdotal empirical (observation) evidence that people's heads turn more often when the valve is open than when it is closed, whether they're drivers or passengers in automobiles or pedestrians. Nothing else changed; engine speed & mechanical noise is very close, vehicle speed is very close, lighting doesn't change, the look of the bike stays the same etc etc. Just the sound level; people notice the sound and look to see from where/what it's coming, simple as that.

If I ever see scientific evidence that loud pipes make people safer, I'll admit they work for that purpose.
I don't believe you would, actually. I believe you'd just stick with your personal opinion and that's that.

If I was to offer up an "expert witness" for the defense:

"... “Loud pipes annoy people,” agrees Brian Lowes, chief instructor at Roadcraft, a Vancouver-based advanced-riding academy that specializes in collision-avoidance techniques and upgrading riding skills. “And from a safety point of view, it doesn’t seem to be beneficial to have a loud motorcycle, because many times, the trouble is ahead of the rider—the guy turning left in front of you, for example—and loud pipes won’t help you then.”

That said, Lowes concedes that loud pipes can help “sometimes”. If, for example, they help riders get the attention of automobile drivers beside or around them, who tend to be in their own little bubble of oblivion, then at least the drivers know that the motorcyclist is there. They may not like the noise, and won’t necessarily do the right thing. But in a car-motorcycle accident, the most-often-heard excuse is “I just didn’t see him.” ..." (link)

you'd just argue he's wrong. As the article says, "Trying to argue that loud pipes don’t save lives because they’re so annoying is ridiculous."

How many instances of people becoming aware of your presence due to sound would be enough to change your mind? How many accidents, lane incursions, pedestrians stepping out etc avoided by virtue of being heard would make some additional sound "okay" with you?

But I'll probably never appreciate it when someone tears butt down my street and wakes up my kids at 2am.
That is not what I'm advocating and even though I suspect you know that you're seemingly going to continue to beat that strawman anyway. :/
 
First, "high" is a subjective term. I've already stated that my desire is an exhaust louder than stock but not "unmuffled." I don't believe this has to be made an all or none issue and see no sense in building up strawmen and forcing the debate in that direction.

Second, it is your opinion regarding the purpose served. Sirens and horns are loud because that gets people's attention, full-stop. The anti-sound crew should be arguing that more careful driving on the part of first responders is all that's needed, not more noise, but they don't because they concede the point: sound works.

Humans generally rely on just 2 senses to know about us on the road: sight and sound. Why effectively advocate removing 50% of their sensory input for detecting us in their midst?

My Tuono (100% stock exhaust at the moment) has a valve in the exhaust, Below 5500 the exhaust path is more convoluted and ends up being very -- almost "whisper" -- quiet; above 5500 the valve opens providing a straighter shot for the exhaust through the silencer resulting in more torque and, yes, a higher sound level. The switchover point is very clean and in 1st gear in city traffic it's easy to add a few kph and open and the valve and then lose a few kph and close it again with little change in engine RPM or vehicle speed.

I've got lots of anecdotal empirical (observation) evidence that people's heads turn more often when the valve is open than when it is closed, whether they're drivers or passengers in automobiles or pedestrians. Nothing else changed; engine speed & mechanical noise is very close, vehicle speed is very close, lighting doesn't change, the look of the bike stays the same etc etc. Just the sound level; people notice the sound and look to see from where/what it's coming, simple as that.



I don't believe you would, actually. I believe you'd just stick with your personal opinion and that's that.

If I was to offer up an "expert witness" for the defense:

"... “Loud pipes annoy people,” agrees Brian Lowes, chief instructor at Roadcraft, a Vancouver-based advanced-riding academy that specializes in collision-avoidance techniques and upgrading riding skills. “And from a safety point of view, it doesn’t seem to be beneficial to have a loud motorcycle, because many times, the trouble is ahead of the rider—the guy turning left in front of you, for example—and loud pipes won’t help you then.”

That said, Lowes concedes that loud pipes can help “sometimes”. If, for example, they help riders get the attention of automobile drivers beside or around them, who tend to be in their own little bubble of oblivion, then at least the drivers know that the motorcyclist is there. They may not like the noise, and won’t necessarily do the right thing. But in a car-motorcycle accident, the most-often-heard excuse is “I just didn’t see him.” ..." (link)

you'd just argue he's wrong. As the article says, "Trying to argue that loud pipes don’t save lives because they’re so annoying is ridiculous."

How many instances of people becoming aware of your presence due to sound would be enough to change your mind? How many accidents, lane incursions, pedestrians stepping out etc avoided by virtue of being heard would make some additional sound "okay" with you?



That is not what I'm advocating and even though I suspect you know that you're seemingly going to continue to beat that strawman anyway. :/
First off, the plural of anecdote is not data.
Secondly, I really don't understand why you're so steamed.

I've already said if someone wants to be loud, that's their choice. If attacking me makes you feel better about it, that's fine.

Keep the rubber side down, OK?
 
I used to think that when filtering through traffic, it was best to be heard so that other drivers were aware of your presence. However, I tried this, and on several occasions I found it caused more problems. Vehicles would suddenly change direction and speed, leaving you guessing what the **** they were doing. Going back to a quitter pipe, let me pass by without incident. Sure they may be startled, but once your past your safe.
i run a 2017 bike with the Yoshimura R77. I have tried this with and without the baffles. I chose to leave them in for one reason. The power was more linear all the way through, but with the baffles oust, the power was more woolly.
I will also mention that the 2016 bike onwards have more restrictions in the collectors ( Down pipes)
and therefore less noise than previous models.
 
My guess is, the majority of those who prefer quiet exhausts are more willing to wear hi-vis, and conversely those who like a noisy exhaust wouldn't be seen wearing hi-vis.

Anyone disagree?

I have a slip on, but DB killer and baffle are in. A noisy exhaust is a safety feature but, like full beam, shouldn't annoy ppl.

I returned from Asia this week. Electric scooters are getting popular over there, and, OMG, they sneak up on you. They are probably 0.5% of the scooters there but nearly every near miss I had was with one. You just can't hear them.
 
My guess is, the majority of those who prefer quiet exhausts are more willing to wear hi-vis, and conversely those who like a noisy exhaust wouldn't be seen wearing hi-vis.

Anyone disagree?

I have a slip on, but DB killer and baffle are in. A noisy exhaust is a safety feature but, like full beam, shouldn't annoy ppl.

I returned from Asia this week. Electric scooters are getting popular over there, and, OMG, they sneak up on you. They are probably 0.5% of the scooters there but nearly every near miss I had was with one. You just can't hear them.
Indeed.

https://www.theverge.com/2016/11/16/13651106/electric-car-noise-nhtsa-rule-blind-pedestrian-safety
 
Maybe you have a point. Personally I do mostly wear the ugly hi-viz stuff, helmet & riding suit. I suppose it is my conseccion to "safety". I do have an all black riding pants + jacket for times I don't want to appear too moto centric. However, I love how quiet the stock bike is.
 
I'm running the stock can. Nuff said.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk
 
I have a screaming demon exhaust on my 2014 CBR500R, it's definitely louder than the stock exhaust but not obnoxiously loud.
I was behind a Yamaha MT07 the other day, I think it's a F something 07 in America, and I was 20 metres behind it and couldn't hear my own bike, it was way too loud. Was trying to see what exhaust it was but it came out at the front of the rear tyre, he may not have even had a bloody exhaust on it.
I think loud is good so people around you know there is a bike near them, but so loud that people can here you from a mile away is not necessary and socially irresponsible.
 
I do not want my bike obnoxiously loud, but I do always run aftermarket over stock. Though I do keep the baffles in on my aftermarket pipe if it's too loud. Not on my 500R though, it sounds fine with the IXIL with no baffles. My other 2 bikes I do keep them in. I want not only other cars to know I am there, but animals too. I live in a very animal dense farm area, so you never know what you may encounter here. Bear, Deer, Fox, Bobcat, a stray goat, wild turkeys, you name it. Case in point, I was riding 3 weeks ago on my CBR600 and a deer came out onto the shoulder area, I revved my throttle and it immediately looked up and took off back into the woods before I came upon it. I call that a win.
 
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Well you're just a dick then. Can't be enjoyable riding a bike that loud and it's not necessary.
I'd rather be a dick than have ZERO sense of humour :kiss:

I have already made my position on pipes quite clear. In the UK we have a phrase for people like you "Some mothers do 'ave 'em" >:)

So I guess if I am Dick... then you are Frank :wink: (Ask someone over 40 from England what that means)





.
 
I have a screaming demon exhaust on my 2014 CBR500R, it's definitely louder than the stock exhaust but not obnoxiously loud.
I was behind a Yamaha MT07 the other day, I think it's a F something 07 in America, and I was 20 metres behind it and couldn't hear my own bike, it was way too loud. Was trying to see what exhaust it was but it came out at the front of the rear tyre, he may not have even had a bloody exhaust on it.
I think loud is good so people around you know there is a bike near them, but so loud that people can here you from a mile away is not necessary and socially irresponsible.

Exactly.



.
 
I'd rather be a dick than have ZERO sense of humour :kiss:

I have already made my position on pipes quite clear. In the UK we have a phrase for people like you "Some mothers do 'ave 'em" >:)

So I guess if I am Dick... then you are Frank :wink: (Ask someone over 40 from England what that means)

.

Mr Spencer!!!!!
 
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