Motor swap nightmare

10996 Views 25 Replies 14 Participants Last post by jdubv1, 4 mo ago

35665

Discussion Starter · Apr 23, 2014

Hello everyone, after searching google, calling honda dealers, etc this is my last resort. I recently picked up a 2013 honda cbr500r. I bought it as a hit bike, thought it was an easy fix giving my husband a high five (I'm a female) while we were leaving the guys house with it in the back of my truck. Got home to notice that when the flywheel got struck it bent the crank, broke every single motor mount on the engine, and cracks threw out the cases including the cylinder jug.

SO LONG STORY SHORT!

I can only find a 2013 cb500x which bolts right into my cbr500r frame and according to all the honda dealers it is the same engine BUT the cbr500r and the cb500x are showing different part numbers for the wiring harness. I will only have the cbr500r harness to work with. DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT THE DIFFERENCE IS? I've called honda dealers and they have no clue, told me it should be easy to make it work.....but then said who knows it might not.

issedoff

So will it work? I just don't want to buy the engine and then have another useless engine sitting in my frame. Someone please help me. I'm stressing out

1 - 20 of 26 Posts

Paul Norton

· #2 · Apr 23, 2014

The wiring for the motor is probably the same.
The wiring for the handlebar switches are probably the same, although it might be longer because of the taller handlebars.
The R has two headlights, the X only has one. So headlight wiring maybe somewhat different.
I am not sure whether or not there is a difference in the rear lighting, but I doubt it.

Reactions: 2

35665

Discussion Starter · #3 · Apr 23, 2014

Paul Norton said:
The wiring for the motor is probably the same.
The wiring for the handlebar switches are probably the same, although it might be longer because of the taller handlebars.
The R has two headlights, the X only has one. So headlight wiring maybe somewhat different.
I am not sure whether or not there is a difference in the rear lighting, but I doubt it.

I know it's pulling for a different part number on the PGM-FI UNIT between the cbr and the cbx which I don't know why they are different and neither does the local Honda dealers

MichaelInVenice

· #4 · Apr 23, 2014

As somebody said, there will be different wiring harnesses due to different lengths required to reach the controls and a different headlight layout.

As for the differences in the PGM-FI units, I have no idea. Can't imagine there's much difference. The only difference between all the other parts of the engine is that the X engine is grey while the F and R engines are black. The internals are all identical as are the induction and exhaust pieces. I wonder if it's something as simple as making it a different color or adjusting the shape/mounting a bit because of differences in the seat shape. I can't imagine there is much of a functional difference between them.

35665

Discussion Starter · #5 · Apr 23, 2014

MichaelInVenice said:
As somebody said, there will be different wiring harnesses due to different lengths required to reach the controls and a different headlight layout.

As for the differences in the PGM-FI units, I have no idea. Can't imagine there's much difference. The only difference between all the other parts of the engine is that the X engine is grey while the F and R engines are black. The internals are all identical as are the induction and exhaust pieces. I wonder if it's something as simple as making it a different color or adjusting the shape/mounting a bit because of differences in the seat shape. I can't imagine there is much of a functional difference between them.

Thank you. It's just so frustrating when you call honda and they shrug there shoulders and say I don't know. In my mind I'm thinking if it's different I can just swap it over from my cbr motor. But then in the back of my head there is my subconscious saying but what if it doesn't work out that easy. Now I spent $1700 on a motor I cannot use. My budget is $1800 to fix this bike, so there is not much room for error

MichaelInVenice

· #6 · Apr 23, 2014

Netty speghetti said:
Thank you. It's just so frustrating when you call honda and they shrug there shoulders and say I don't know. In my mind I'm thinking if it's different I can just swap it over from my cbr motor. But then in the back of my head there is my subconscious saying but what if it doesn't work out that easy. Now I spent $1700 on a motor I cannot use. My budget is $1800 to fix this bike, so there is not much room for error

Honestly, take the loss and sell it for parts. You screwed up by not inspecting carefully and you're never going to get the money back. At this point it's all sending good money after bad. Even if you pull it off you'll have a bike with an obviously non-original engine which will kill the resale value. No matter how well it runs, it'll always be priced as a frankenbike.

Take the $1800 plus whatever you get for the parts bike and buy something used and running.

Reactions: 3

35665

Discussion Starter · #7 · Apr 23, 2014

MichaelInVenice said:
Honestly, take the loss and sell it for parts. You screwed up by not inspecting carefully and you're never going to get the money back. At this point it's all sending good money after bad. Even if you pull it off you'll have a bike with an obviously non-original engine which will kill the resale value. No matter how well it runs, it'll always be priced as a frankenbike.

Take the $1800 plus whatever you get for the parts bike and buy something used and running.

I picked the bike up for $800 with a clear title. Frame is straight. If the 500x engine goes in smoothly, plus it needs the middle cowl and a few smalls like a peg, and rad hose I'll have under $3000 into it. I thought it was well worth it.

NakdWhtnonABS

· #8 · Apr 24, 2014

Netty speghetti said:
I picked the bike up for $800 with a clear title. Frame is straight. If the 500x engine goes in smoothly, plus it needs the middle cowl and a few smalls like a peg, and rad hose I'll have under $3000 into it. I thought it was well worth it.

Is it a flip or are you keeping it?

vroom_vroom

· #9 · Apr 24, 2014

Hope it works out for you. For myself I wld never be comfortable with any vehicle, let alone a bike that's pretty much pooched from a crash. I just wld never feel safe. Riding is risk related as it is. Please keep us informed on you and your husbands project. I agree, the 500 series are nice bikes.

35665

Discussion Starter · #10 · Apr 24, 2014

NakdWhtnonABS said:
Is it a flip or are you keeping it?

I plan on keeping it

Reactions: 1

MichaelInVenice

· #11 · Apr 24, 2014

The problem is, as I have learned from several restoration projects, it is never as simple or as cheap as you think it is. If you're a pro and have seen hundreds of them, you eventually figure out how to estimate things well. The rest of us need to put a lot of extra padding into the budget because most of the time we'll miss something and we'll need it.

With a budget as tight as yours, I'd advise against. Because there will be something else. There always is. Just my experience.

Reactions: 4

novaman64

· #12 · Apr 24, 2014

Just curious how you know your frame is straight... Did you have it shot with a laser? If the bike got hit hard enough to destroy the motor Id be willing to bet the frame is off. Eye inspection might not show it, but it might not ride right... Just food for thought...

Reactions: 1

35665

Discussion Starter · #13 · Apr 26, 2014

novaman64 said:
Just curious how you know your frame is straight... Did you have it shot with a laser? If the bike got hit hard enough to destroy the motor Id be willing to bet the frame is off. Eye inspection might not show it, but it might not ride right... Just food for thought...

If it's off, it's not by much and with the frame being steel it will be simply fixed. Most of my family are master mechanics and skilled metal workers. Which have fixed truck frames that look like pretzels, not looking like it was never hit. But I've got the bike rolling about 10 mph down the road it rolled smooth and felt straight. So we'll see how feels it with the new engine.

35665

Discussion Starter · #14 · Apr 26, 2014

MichaelInVenice said:
The problem is, as I have learned from several restoration projects, it is never as simple or as cheap as you think it is. If you're a pro and have seen hundreds of them, you eventually figure out how to estimate things well. The rest of us need to put a lot of extra padding into the budget because most of the time we'll miss something and we'll need it.

With a budget as tight as yours, I'd advise against. Because there will be something else. There always is. Just my experience.

This is true. I do expect to spend more but fingers crossed. But my husband which is an excellent mechanic which builds from the ground up hot rods, diesel trucks, plus he use to build the honda civics with engine swaps, and built several dirt bikes and motorcycles which were train wrecks. He also does a lot of his own wiring when it's needed. So he told not to worry about it and go ahead and just buy the motor. Plus he always favored the Hondas :grin. With the skills everyone has in my family, I'm confident this bike will be up and running soon. I'll keep everyone posted, since this vital information will help someone else one day.

Reactions: 2

ZigZag

· #15 · Apr 26, 2014

You original words were "motor swap nightmare". That speaks for itself. But I wish you luck.

MichaelInVenice

· #16 · Apr 27, 2014

Netty speghetti said:
Thank you. It's just so frustrating when you call honda and they shrug there shoulders and say I don't know.

Odds are quite good that the only people who do know are the engineers who designed it. The reality is that no mechanic is going to know how one black-box that has no serviceable parts/programming differs from another black-box that has no serviceable parts/programming. They are unlikely to have or to have any access to information about what's going on inside, let alone how it might or might not differ from what's going on inside another similar part with a different part number.

Reactions: 1

Xaero

· #17 · Apr 27, 2014

Netty speghetti said:
it's pulling for a different part number on the PGM-FI UNIT between the cbr and the cbx

Could this one unit tune the R different than the X so the R is more sporty and X more adventurey? That could be why the part number is different. I wouldn't be surprised on an EFI.

MichaelInVenice

· #18 · Apr 27, 2014

Honda doesn't publish detailed specs and nobody's compared the two on a dyno, so impossible to tell. All the other components are the same and they're both made to meet the same emissions rules, so there isn't a whole lot of latitude to change much. If the gearing were different that would explain it, but as far as I know it isn't.

whiteknuckle

· #19 · Apr 30, 2014

One thing i do not understand. Is the replacement motor a new motor from Honda or from a 2nd crashed bike? If it is a new motor from Honda why cant you just buy the motor that has the correct part number?

Reactions: 2

Captain!

· #20 · May 1, 2014

The answer to this is simple. Yes the engines are exactly the same. This is a low priced, mass produced motorcycle. The only differences in the harness are as stated previously about headlights and possibly the harness lengths to account for different wire routing. Your cbr ecu will run the cbx engine.

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