Honda CBR 500 Riders Forum banner

1 - 20 of 38 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi everyone. Im getting hard starts in neutral unless i pull the clutch in. It cranks but wont start. As soon as i pull the clutch in, boom. It used tonstart 1st time everytime until a few months ago. Ive checked clutch cable, its adjusted well. Any suggestions?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Yes. I even checked the neutral switch. If it was the nuetral switch it wouldnt crank over. It trys to start, then starts with clutch in. Im thinking something internal
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,057 Posts
What year is the bike? How old is the battery? Do you keep it on a trickle charger?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
372 Posts
What year is the bike? How old is the battery? Do you keep it on a trickle charger?
You’re right, if it’s cranking then it’s not the neutral switch. Does it crank at full speed with the clutch out? It might be battery related as Natrix suggests, with one sensor parameter out of limit for the ECU, that comes into range with the marginally lower drag of pulling the clutch in.

Try disconnecting the clutch switch, and see if the problem is linked to the mechanical action of disengaging the clutch, or to the action of making/braking the electrical circuit with the switch.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
What year is the bike? How old is the battery? Do you keep it on a trickle charger?
You’re right, if it’s cranking then it’s not the neutral switch. Does it crank at full speed with the clutch out? It might be battery related as Natrix suggests, with one sensor parameter out of limit for the ECU, that comes into range with the marginally lower drag of pulling the clutch in.

Try disconnecting the clutch switch, and see if the problem is linked to the mechanical action of disengaging the clutch, or to the action of making/braking the electrical circuit with the switch.
So are you saying if i disconnect the clutch switch, and it starts first time, its the clutch switch? If i disconnect the clutch switch, and it still hard starts (cranks but doesnt start) its mechanical ie something wong internally
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,057 Posts
What has your oil change regimen been? How fresh and full is the oil now? Have you been using quality oil filters?
Seems like a matter of excess drag in the transmission. If the bike is otherwise running and riding well, I wouldn’t worry too much. I’d change the oil with a good quality oil, maybe even synth, ride it a bit (a good 75 to 200 miles within two days), then change the oil again. Use 30 weight if you can. See how that goes.
Alternatively, it could be the starter or the electrical contacts to it. I’d clean those up, too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
I just did an oil change with full synth. The bike runs a dream. Just hard starts unless i pull the clutch in. If i unplug the switch, i have to arc the 2 connectors to isolate the switch yeh? Then start it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
372 Posts
You can try it two different ways. Probably the easiest is to disconnect the clutch cable first, so you can actuate the switch in the lever without actually doing anything mechanical with the clutch. If the engine starts with the lever in but not out, then the issue is to do with the wiring somewhere. If it makes no difference, then try using a wrench directly on the clutch lever on the engine; if that makes a difference then the issue is mechanical.

I don’t see how oil viscosity could make a difference here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,057 Posts
If the clutch is engaged, lever out, even in neutral a few elements of the transmission will be turning. If things were gunked up quite a bit, that could make a small difference. With the clutch disengaged, lever pulled in, that little bit of drag isn’t there.
Honestly, unless there is a huge gunk buildup from a fair bit of neglect, this alone would never be a problem.

Also, to the OP, does the starter turn the engine over just as easily/quickly in both conditions (clutch in or out)? If so, it’s probably not the starter or it’s connections either.

I’m not able to do any real digging for answers now, but Here are more thoughts.

On this bike, we can start it in any gear so long as the clutch lever is pulled in, right? If my memory is functioning and that is the case, to check the clutch interlock switch, you could just try to start in another gear (if you do this with the clutch lever pulled out, make sure you’re squeezing the brake lever! If things are working right, nothing should happen, but you never know). It’s probably fine, though.

If the engine turns over at the same speed in neutral with the clutch lever out as it does with it pulled in, then maybe there’s a spark issue. I don’t know how the clutch interlock is wired or whether it’s wiring goes anywhere near anything like, say, the kill switch wiring or any other wiring relating to spark. Maybe something is pinched. Or there’s another bad ground connection somewhere.

I’m just thinking out loud while doing other things. Sorry for my fairly useless input. I expect one of the super serious wrenches on here will chime in soon with an “it’s this, easy peasy” and you’ll be all set, lol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,088 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
705 Posts
It happens to me sometimes also on my 2016 500F - but very seldomly.
It normally starts up after 1, or maximum 2 revolutions, so the starter has to be pushed only momentarily.
When it happens, it only happens on the sidestand, gear in N.

Most of the time when it happens I just keep pushing the starter, and it fires up after about 3-5 seconds of cranking. If not, second attempt started it right away so far.

It happened a few times that I did not want to crank it long, and I was ready with the "preflight check" and buttoning up already so I sat on it, flipped the kickstand up and it fired on the first revolution of the starter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
263 Posts
My bike takes longer to start when I turn the ignition on, then wait a bit (like while putting gloves/helmet on) before pressing the starter switch. If I press the starter straight after turning on the ignition and waiting for the fuel pump to prime, then it starts after 1 or 2 cranks. Sometimes though I mix it up a bit and the bike sits with the ignition on for about 30 seconds before I press the starter switch to crank the motor. It's more like 5 or 6 cranks until it fires if I do that.

I always assumed that either the fuel pressure was dropping because the pump primer only runs for about 2 seconds after the ignition is switched on, or, that the battery voltage was dropping from running the headlights for a short time before the starter was pressed (battery is 4.5 years old, and I've definitely noticed a very slight slowing in the starter motor speed over time).

FWIW I always start my bike on the stand and in neutral.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,636 Posts
On that subject, I don't know why you'd ever turn the ignition on before you're ready to start the bike. If you want to check the computer for something, sure, do that and turn it back off. Or immediately flip it into neutral and fire it up. I'd never turn the ignition on and just leave it dead with the power draining for nothing. What's the point? The petrol/gas it'll eat even in 5 minutes of idling is negligible. And if you don't need the headlight or anything during that time you can leave it off.

That out of the way, I haven't personally experienced this. If the engine is cranking I'm not sure a kill switch could be responsible. Mine won't even crank when any kill switch is disengaged. Perhaps a low or weak battery, but then I'm not sure why pushing the starter a second time would be more effective than the first (unless somehow the load, no load, load pattern causes a sudden spike in juice; not an EE, sounds unrealistic). I wonder what happens to the fuel that gets injected initially if it sits too long. And on that same note, I wonder if you flipped the key off and on again triggering another prime if it would start instantly or not. Maybe the fuel is injected as a vapor, but gradually returns into a liquid while it sits, and doesn't want to ignite initially when the starter is finally hit. Just making uneducated guesses...

The OP's description sounds relate to gear/clutch so it sounds kill switch related, but again I think if the switches are working properly the engine shouldn't even crank... :confused2
@Oyabun What does it mean that you "did not want to crank it long?"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
705 Posts
@Oyabun What does it mean that you "did not want to crank it long?"
I'm not a native English speaker, so there could be a better way to express that.

I wanted to express that I did not want to use the starter excessively. These small batteries have very limited amount of energy stored in them and using the starter excessively toll on them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
I'm having the same problem for some months now with my CB500F '14, and it seems the problem is evolving. I've read the other similar posts and I'm experiencing the same exact symptoms.

At first if I just tipped the bike of the sidestand(with it still down) it would start. Afterwards I had to pull the clutch in to start. Lately that does not seem enough.
It seems like the bike wants to start, because after 1 second of cranking I can hear the engine barely firing up with a couple of detonations. If I release the start button at the right time it fires up though.
All that said, sometimes it'll start without issue and no shenanigans needed. When it's hot it seems to fire straight up.

I read that post mentioning it could be an issue with the signal getting to the ECU, unless I misunderstood it. I guess at some point I'll have to get to the wiring harness and check it out.
It's just any of the symptoms make any sense together, they contradict each other. Could the starter clutch be involved also?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
356 Posts
... It seems like the bike wants to start, because after 1 second of cranking I can hear the engine barely firing up with a couple of detonations. If I release the start button at the right time it fires up though.
I occasionally get that too, but did not think too much about it since it can't be repeated. The original battery (4.5 yo now) is definately getting weaker. A new one was planned but it survived another winter; we'll see. My spark plugs are also due; may be a contributing factor; hard to say.

Since I changed to LED headlight bulb (25W instead of 50W halogen), i noticed the starting was easier throughout winter. I am pleasantly surprised the original battery survived another winter of cold starts.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
So my issue evolved. It wont start now unless i sit on the bike and put the stand up not in gear. I took it to the shop and they couldnt find the fault. Thanks everyone for their help so far. I think im going to have to spend a day tinkering myself with the manual
 
1 - 20 of 38 Posts
Top