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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Looks really nice in fit and finish.
From just sitting on the bike the suspension seems solid
and not as bouncy.
I saw that yes there is an oil check window but it is partially blocked
by the lower faring.
I thought the 250 had the sidestand knob (the sticky out bit that you use to lower stand) was in an awkward place but WTF! its even worse on the 500.
it almost under the footpeg. I do like that it had a 160/60/17 rear tire. be much more options for better rubber.

still want to get a test ride before i decide if this bike enough. The low redline is still a concern and the fact that (here) the insurance jump from the 250 to the 500 is the same whether i get the 500 or a 650 (any bike up to a 750 be same $$)
 

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The low redline is still a concern
Why? The 500's have a very flat torque curve, which drops down a bit above 8000rpm. This means that the HP curve is almost a dead perfect linear increase in HP with RPM, right up to about 8000rpm above which it flattens off. Any further than 9000rpm (the rev limiter) and you are *loosing* HP.

There is *no point* revving much above the 9000rpm rev limiter.

The flat bit which *slightly* drops of from 8000-900rpm. This is actually good: rev to the limiter, and change up and you are still at the max HP even with the loss of 1500rpm. Revving any higher and the HP will drop off even more as can be seen from the Torque curve. This is unlike many other bikes (Ninja 650 anyone?), where the max HP is either right at the end of the revs or actually waaayyy before it (eg. Ninja 650): changing up results in you dropping down in the HP curve of the engine. This is like the CBR250R: revving much above 9500-10,000 rpm is a waste.

So, unless you require ringing its **** off to 4 figure revs just coz ya like to, even though this is resulting in less HP and worse performance, the 9000rpm rev limiter is sweet as it is.

It's the same as the NC700: revs to 6500rpm, which is where just after peak HP. Upon changing up a cog it will drop down the HP curve more than the 500's will, but revving any higher than its current rev limiter and the HP will drop off as well as can be seen from the Torque curve. The max rpm is not an issue, despite people going "it needs to rev higher...". Ha. Rev it to the limiter and change. Rinse repeat.

I think people need to look at the engine characteristics before they go on about what they think is a limitation...it's about using the machine according to its characteristics.

Take a look at the chart below, all taken from rear-wheel dyno runs available on the web.

Dave

screen-capture-2.png
 

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^^make that 5 figure revs.
 

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The flatter torque curve doesn't require you to rev it up to get torque out of it like other bikes. That is why the redline is not as high. Not a bad thing.

The CBR500 is very different than say a CBR600RR or a GSXR 650 or 750 (if that is what you are looking at)
 

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The flatter torque curve doesn't require you to rev it up to get torque out of it like other bikes. That is why the redline is not as high. Not a bad thing.
Close ;-) Torque is what is developed at a specific rpm, horse power is torque x prm. So the engine develops solid torque at lower rpm --> dont have to rev it out to get good HP :). If this engine did rev higher, then it wouldn't have the same torque characteristics...

I agree its not a bad thing: I am disliking having to rev the 250 to 8k rpm + sounding like a nutter flogging his bike just to get some decent pull.

Dave
 

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torque curve might look flat but at around 6500 the power does kick in, might be just me but it reall starts to move around 6500-8500.
 
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torque curve might look flat but at around 6500 the power does kick in, might be just me but it reall starts to move around 6500-8500.
Yeah, it isnt dead flat" - after a relatively flat spot between 4000-6000 rpm, there is a little blob of torque at 6000-8000rpm :D. At least its not like the 250R where there was nothing until 6000 and then suddenly she starts to move LOL.

Dave
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
ok i can see your points about the low rpm redine and not being a bad thing. Like when comparing the Ninja 250 to cbr250. Having to wring the ninjas neck to get any decent off line power. I think i am starting to get it :) and actually am starting to like the nc700x again. with the torque coming on right at idle. The fact that i can ride all day at 120-140kph (which is pretty much as fast as i ever go) and get great mpg at same time.

There going to be a Honda demo day at a dealer on May3. I think i will try to make it out to check the 500 and 700x out. Tho in one way i dread it because it probably make me not like the cbr250 anymore. And actually they having a Honda day (3rd) and Kawasaki day (4th) so be good way to test out and compare the Ninja650.
 

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I seen the NC700X and CBR500R at the dealer today. The 700x is big and goofy looking.
The 500R is sleek and sexy. No comparison. Supposed to have the same HP, even though the 700 is a bigger motor. Wassup with that?
 

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peak hp doesn't actually tell you very much. Peak torque and where it appears in the rev-range is more telling of the bikes characteristics. Having a broad torque curve low in the rev range means that you have the ability to use taller gears, and not have to change gears @every 1000rpm.
 

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I seen the NC700X and CBR500R at the dealer today. The 700x is big and goofy looking.
The 500R is sleek and sexy. No comparison. Supposed to have the same HP, even though the 700 is a bigger motor. Wassup with that?
Re-read my post above...the NC has HUGE torque very low down. That's whats up with that :) - totally different characteristic.

Dave
 

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..........
There going to be a Honda demo day at a dealer on May3. I think i will try to make it out to check the 500 and 700x out. Tho in one way i dread it because it probably make me not like the cbr250 anymore. And actually they having a Honda day (3rd) and Kawasaki day (4th) so be good way to test out and compare the Ninja650.
I seen the NC700X and CBR500R at the dealer today. The 700x is big and goofy looking.
The 500R is sleek and sexy. No comparison. Supposed to have the same HP, even though the 700 is a bigger motor. Wassup with that?
I rode both those bikes & the 500R was just more fun to ride - for me at least
I'm sure the 700 is a good bike - just seemed boring to me


I get a big smile every time I ride my 500R :D

The Ninja 650 is a bigger, heavier but more powerful bike AND quite noticeably more expensive that the CBR500 (and much older technology)
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
The Ninja 650 is a bigger, heavier but more powerful bike AND quite noticeably more expensive that the CBR500 (and much older technology)
not entirely true. yes. more money ($2000 more msrp over Honda)
Not really older tech. Ninja 2012+ is all new with abs and fuel injection.

bigger? not really.
seat height. honda = 785mm 30.9 inch / Ninja = 805mm 31.7 inch
wheel base. honda = 1409mm 55.5 inch / Ninja = 1410mm 55.5 inch

looks almost same to me.

heavier? Honda is 196kg/432lb to ninja 211kg 460lb (28lb is not much heavier)

power? honda 47hp/35nm torque to ninja 72hp/64nm torque.
 

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not entirely true. yes. more money ($2000 more msrp over Honda)
Not really older tech. Ninja 2012+ is all new with abs and fuel injection.

bigger? not really.
seat height. honda = 785mm 30.9 inch / Ninja = 805mm 31.7 inch
wheel base. honda = 1409mm 55.5 inch / Ninja = 1410mm 55.5 inch

looks almost same to me.

heavier? Honda is 196kg/432lb to ninja 211kg 460lb (28lb is not much heavier)

power? honda 47hp/35nm torque to ninja 72hp/64nm torque.

LOL
OK tit for tat......

Let me borrow $2000 for a while would you ?
I'll get it back to you in a a few months......

Honda new engine design,
KAW some old 650 with updated fuel injection added

HON Pro Link rear shock linkage
KAW same old external right side shock - ugly IMO

28 lbs is 28 lbs ....put that in a backpack & carry it around for a while

honda = 785mm 30.9 inch / Ninja = 805mm 31.7 inch

3/4 of an inch is not much for a average sized man but for a smaller man or woman its a big difference
Don't believe me?
Try raising your bicycle seat 3/4" & ride if around for an hour - let me know how it feels :)

But to each his own
If you want a KAW 650 get one , ride it, be happy with it

The HON 500R is a different class of bike than the 650

Which is better ?
That's for you to personally decide - beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Ride what you like.
You're gonna have it a few years - get one you'll enjoy

Might as well look at a ZX6R and 600RR too.... they are only a few thousand more & have a lot of get up & go - even more than the 650 !
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
so if you did have 2k$ extra layin around you would prefer the Ninja 650?
still not sure where i will go for next bike. Not sure if i trust kawa reliability and build quality. And not really sure if you get that much more for the extra 2k$ over the cb500.

As for weight, depends where it is carried. The nc700x weighs 48lb more but does not feel like it.

As for the supersports, not for me. the ergo would kill me. And honestly the insane power of those machines scares me a little :)

since i wont ride a bike without abs that leaves me a few choices. Stay with Honda?
the 500, nc700x or even cbf600. Kawasaki pretty much ninja 650 is it. Suzuki the sv650 and Vstrom or even the gsx650f (but **** that bike is a porker at 540lb)

a test ride will answer alot of questions and help me decide. Have an opportunity on may 3 and 4 to test Honda and Kawasaki bikes but not sure i want to do that yet. Not ready to buy until the fall, if i like one of the new bikes i am afraid it will make me hate the cbr250 for the summer :)
 

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@whiteknuckle

I think the point is to buy what bike you want, the bike you prefer, the bike you can afford. It doesn't matter what other people think, or what they would buy. It's your money. If the Ninja is in your price range and you think it would make a better bike then choose it.

My advice would be to test ride both, see which you like and decide whether the extra 2000 is worth it for you or not.
 

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For me saving that 2K was a big factor, and that money has gone back into the bank for my future MV Agusta F3. My CBR500 is a gateway drug to Super Sports class in a years time.
 

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For me saving that 2K was a big factor, and that money has gone back into the bank for my future MV Agusta F3. My CBR500 is a gateway drug to Super Sports class in a years time.
I know what you mean man. haha good analogy about the cbr500r being a gateway drug. I would love to get me a Ducati 999 one day hopefully. :D
 

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Personally I think the Ninja 650 is a very ugly bike and the fact it is 2000 more just gives me more reason not to choose it.
Still, some people may like the way it looks and be happy to pay the extra money for the extra power.
 
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