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If your motor is turning over well then it's not the battery. something is preventing spark or the fuel pump from priming.

On the occasions it won't start, do you hear the pump prime when you turn the key to On? The Kill Switch must be to On as well.
 

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If your motor is turning over well then it's not the battery. something is preventing spark or the fuel pump from priming.

On the occasions it won't start, do you hear the pump prime when you turn the key to On? The Kill Switch must be to On as well.

Yes, the pump does prime, and it runs fine once it's going. When it's cranking it sounds a LITTLE weak sometimes, but not terribly. I just put it on the charger, then it started right away... So that's 12.78V cold, and over 13+V charged. All the literature says it's where it needs to be, but maybe this bike just needs a really strong battery. All my accessories are on a delay, so they shouldn't be a factor while off or starting.
 

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i really don't think this motor needs a super strong battery. my M1100 EVO is a much tougher engine to crank over (L-twin engine) but it cranks.

I say experiment a little more with charging the battery and see how it goes. I'd also see about cleaning plugs, grounds, making sure all vent hoses are good to go. If it keeps acting fine with a recently charged battery then maybe it's the problem.
 

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Even though I was fairly confident my original battery was still good, I decided to replace it as a rule-out. Today it gave me a little trouble again. Unlike my old Ninja 250r, it takes a bit of work to get to the plugs. I'm at 21K miles, so it will be a little while until my next valve clearance check, or scheduled reason to tear it down. I'm not ruling the spark theory out altogether, but I'm wondering if the starter clutch is starting to go out.... but isn't far enough gone yet to give a characteristic sound. I'll see what develops, and if it gets any worse I'll start taking parts apart.
 

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Won't start in Neutral with kickstand down

Well, it is my turn to experience this "wont start in N with kickstand down".
In N, bike up (vertical) with kickstand down, it will crank but not fire-up/start until kickstand goes up.
[ note: Initially, pulling the clutch will start right up (in N, bike parked with kickstand down) but it got worse and now pulling the clutch makes no difference ].

Reading the circuit diagrams, the ignition is controlled by the ECU (computer), separate to the starter motor. Ability to crank does not mean there will be ignition; also mentioned by @Blackfin.

With a multimeter, starting voltage drop looks decent.
Kickstand switch tested ok (repeatedly); Clutch switch is good; Neutral diode is good.

For @droogiee and @Bobkazz, it wasn't the kickstand switch either or the clutch switch. For @Bobkazz, it was traced to the harness wiring loom. I hope it is not; it going to be a PITA...

Others having the same problem includes @schemm79 @jamespz03 @barrmy @Nofxguy @dt.planetgong

Using a fully charged car battery (parallel with jumper cable) made no difference; it's not the battery.

Have yet to test the Neutral switch since the socket is a hard to access. Neutral light on the instrument panel is stable and consistent.
 

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Cleaning the area around the kickstand seems to have fixed it for me. It starts the first time, every time now and has been consistent. I hope it's the same for you as well.
 

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Cleaning the area around the kickstand seems to have fixed it for me. It starts the first time, every time now and has been consistent. I hope it's the same for you as well.
Okay I think I'm joining the club here - my 2013 RA now refuses to start at all with kickstand down. And 5km of every ride is gravel road, so the bike undercarriage is always filthy. So...how did you clean it, where did you clean, and what did you use, please? I will try a wash and a wipe with a rag, but if there's a chemical cleaner you'd recommend, I would like to know. Thanks kindly!
 

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I have a schematic for your bike's side stand. It shows the safety switch. It will have a plunger type device that opens and closes to activate and allow the safety system to recognize the side stand is safely up, so it can start. By looking at the side stand and switch, you'll be able to tell where to clean to insure the switch's proper operation. If it looks clean and the plunger operation is good, but it's still not starting properly.... Unplug the wiring harness on the side stand safety switch.. Take the other end of wiring harness going to the motorcycle... Insert a bent paper clip or similar jumper wire into the place the safety switch's wire plugged into. If the bike starts up (with the side stand up or down) the safety switch is bad... Replace it.... It's called a safety switch for good reason.
 

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"It will have a plunger type device that opens and closes to activate and allow the safety system to recognize the side stand is safely up, so it can start. By looking at the side stand and switch, you'll be able to tell where to clean to insure the switch's proper operation."


Thanks very much AH, that's helpful. I will have a good look when I stow the bike for Fall...within two weeks <wah!> I can see the snow line coming down the hills...
 

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I've gone through this problem before.

The kickstand switch is not the cause (of the problem) because when kickstand is down:
1) the kickstand switch is Off (open circuit). It is suppose to be Off, and bike is suppose to start that way. So, the real problem is somewhere else (hint: Neutral sensor).

Refer to:
 

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I've gone through this problem before.

The kickstand switch is not the cause (of the problem) because when kickstand is down:
1) the kickstand switch is Off (open circuit). It is suppose to be Off, and bike is suppose to start that way. So, the real problem is somewhere else (hint: Neutral sensor).

Refer to:
Hear you, EDS. Problem is, reluctant start seems to be INTERMITTENT with bike -- most days fine and some days just gnarly. (BTW I went and read through that other forum you cited, thank you, and noted I am still on the original battery from 2013 so yet another rabbit to chase. Feel free to ignore any whining sound you hear ;) )

For now, 95% of the time it will start sweetly in N with the kickstand down...and stall instantly if shifted to 1 before kickstand is knocked up, just like it should (good bike! biscuit!) Other days, I can hear the starter making that whiny/scratchy ask but it doesn't get the big VRRROOOOM answer, if you know what I mean. Then I have to go through this kabuki theatre ritual where I knock kickstand up and down couple times, squeeze clutch and kick gear down into 1 and back up to N, wobble bike back and forth to slosh gas in the tank, hold my mouth just so... :rolleyes: and then it grudgingly roars to life. So far.

Therefore my initial suspicion, mabye it's a DIRT problem -- because I live on a gravel road, and because I have noticed that occasionally the kickstand does not snap up to full horizontal when knocked, but stops cheated down just a bit, which is a MECHANICAL interrupt, right? So I will start there and make sure the kickstand area is all clean and happy so that the bike "knows" the kickstand is Up or Down, period.

But if that doesn't do the trick, then the next suspects are the battery (which my brother can test with a gadget) and then the N sensor as you pointed out, which is an ELECTRONIC interrupt, right? Which alas means trailering and a 1.5 hour trip to Honda dealer <whoosh of 20-dollar bills bursting into flame> So for now, I'm reeeeally hoping it's just good old dirt.

BTW As you can tell, I am SO not a mechanic, so please forgive the clumsy explanation here ;-) Thanks kindly for your advice, and I will update in due course. Cheers!
 

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All the symptoms mentioned above is exactly what i've experienced (and others). It is an intermittent Gremlin that slowly get worst over a year or two.

The Neutral "sensor" is mechanical; very old school (used by Royal Enfield, 70s?) and it is a sacrificial consumable.

If the bike starts up immediately when you swing the kickstand up (while sitting on it with starter button pressed), then it is the Neutral sensor.

It is cheaper than a battery. And reasonably easy to change. Not much harder than changing the battery.
My 2014 R is still using the original battery.
 

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All the symptoms mentioned above is exactly what i've experienced (and others). It is an intermittent Gremlin that slowly get worst over a year or two.

The Neutral "sensor" is mechanical; very old school (used by Royal Enfield, 70s?) and it is a sacrificial consumable.

If the bike starts up immediately when you swing the kickstand up (while sitting on it with starter button pressed), then it is the Neutral sensor.

It is cheaper than a battery. And reasonably easy to change. Not much harder than changing the battery. My 2014 R is still using the original battery.
**** those gremlins! Don't they have anything better to do with their time?!

Srsly I'm much relieved to hear it's a straightforward fix. I printed out your post and will try the "swing up kickstand" test, that sounds like it would be instantly diagnostic.

Not being mechanic-minded myself, I'm kind of at the mercy of the dealership. So extremely grateful for the good advice from this forum. Thanks much, EDS!
 

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**** those gremlins! Don't they have anything better to do with their time?!

Srsly I'm much relieved to hear it's a straightforward fix. I printed out your post and will try the "swing up kickstand" test, that sounds like it would be instantly diagnostic.

Not being mechanic-minded myself, I'm kind of at the mercy of the dealership. So extremely grateful for the good advice from this forum. Thanks much, EDS!
All the symptoms mentioned above is exactly what i've experienced (and others). It is an intermittent Gremlin that slowly get worst over a year or two.

The Neutral "sensor" is mechanical; very old school (used by Royal Enfield, 70s?) and it is a sacrificial consumable.

If the bike starts up immediately when you swing the kickstand up (while sitting on it with starter button pressed), then it is the Neutral sensor.

It is cheaper than a battery. And reasonably easy to change. Not much harder than changing the battery.
My 2014 R is still using the original battery.
Hey EDS, get ready for the three sweetest words in the English language... ;)

Ready...?

You were right. :D

Just had beast into M/C shop for bedtime oil change, kickstand all professionally cleaned and greased, yada yada.

And bike repeatedly refused to start in N unless kickstand was up. Mechanic a little baffled. Not me, because this forum.

So a shiny new N sensor is on the menu for 2021 services for the bike. Meantime, taking beast home in the twilight to tuck away for the winter, it's currently 3*C or less and I can barely move for all the layers. May there be no frost (we hatesssss it).

THANK YOU SINCERELY!! This forum rocks!
 
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