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Don't they rectify engineering problems when detected? I expected better quality.
My son has special access to the Honda Engineering and testing (mostly for autos) and I am sure they do what they can. However, costs override virtually everything. This engine is one of the best engineered ones I have ever seen, but again, this bike is a "cheap" one, and one can expect that they will cut costs wherever.
 

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The only thing that concerns me is long-term engine reliability. My 2019 just likes to be spinning at 6,200 plus most of the time, it's like a little demon, it doesn't even labour. I keep the oil changed at about 3to4,000 miles. So we will have to see. A lot of folks get high miles, but that maybe just commuting.
 

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This engine is one of the best engineered ones I have ever seen, but again, this bike is a "cheap" one, and one can expect that they will cut costs wherever.
I don't believe anyone can overstate how well Honda does 'engineering and dependability' throughout both their entire line of products. No matter if it's auto, motorcycles, lawn mowers, generators.. you name it. The fact that their products are built so well and still reasonably affordable speaks volumes about the company's philosophy of doing business.
 

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My son has special access to the Honda Engineering and testing (mostly for autos) and I am sure they do what they can. However, costs override virtually everything. This engine is one of the best engineered ones I have ever seen, but again, this bike is a "cheap" one, and one can expect that they will cut costs wherever.
Do you mean the engine machining tolerances, quality of materials, or build quality .Or have they extensively tested the engine above and beyond.
 

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I don't believe anyone can overstate how well Honda does 'engineering and dependability' throughout both their entire line of products. No matter if it's auto, motorcycles, lawn mowers, generators.. you name it. The fact that their products are built so well and still reasonably affordable speaks volumes about the company's philosophy of doing business.
Well airhead, have you got a current bike or are you looking to upgrade.
 

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Well airhead, have you got a current bike or are you looking to upgrade.
Both. I have an '18 Suzuki GSX250R I bought at years end from my local dealer at a nice price. It's really all the bike I need, and it's been enjoyable. It's sort of like a rescue pound puppy.. nothing wrong with it, but nobody wanted it because.. well it's an odd ball here in the US, and it's a 249cc. Such as life, never satisfied with what we have. What I'd really like is one of those sexy red Italian models... but my spouse of 36 years would probably frown on that... Bike or woman.. Just as well.. I couldn't handle or afford either. ;)
 

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Both. I have an '18 Suzuki GSX250R I bought at years end from my local dealer at a nice price. It's really all the bike I need, and it's been enjoyable. It's sort of like a rescue pound puppy.. nothing wrong with it, but nobody wanted it because.. well it's an odd ball here in the US, and it's a 249cc. Such as life, never satisfied with what we have. What I'd really like is one of those sexy red Italian models... but my spouse of 36 years would probably frown on that... Bike or woman.. Just as well.. I couldn't handle or afford either. ;)
Nothing wrong with a 250. Anyway it's good to dream 👍
 

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As a daily commuter in city traffic to work, with lots of 1st gear usage, just about a year before the (engine) started taking longer to start/crank-over (e.g. 2~3 whirls/crank-over; no longer immediate). With a bit of work around (e.g. a little delayed throttle when starting), it was ok for another year. After that, the starting began becoming randomly unreliable; (requiring more workaround like kickstand up, pull clutch lever, pressure on gear lever, etc.)

But for those that only ride seasonally in good traffic without much 1st gear usage, the Neutral Sensor should last a (very) long time.
Again I have to acknowledge you are spot on. I use my CB500F to commute to work, a lot of traffic lights and a lot of first and second gear usage.

Others say Honda quality is top notch. Well, let me disagree, this problem is not a testament to any kind of top notch engineering.
 

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Oh my days thank you for this thread - I thought I was loosing my mind!

I'd rode through the coldest winter had to offer with it firing up like a champ, and then all of a sudden "whirr-whir-whir(x 3 seconds), brrrrrr". Simples I thought - it's the battery. Fortunately my battery is 6 months old and LiPo and has been well tendered and never charged cold ... so warranty it!

New Lipo battery, 2 days later, whir-whir-whir. It's only in the morning on colder days, so it must be electrical, right? One whole after noon changing the spark plugs later & the next morning same issue. a few days later and the whirr is lasting longer than 5 seconds, so I'm stopping cranking and trying again not to put too much stress on the battery/starter. Also I'm now less sure that it's temperature related ... it's cold in the mornings, but it started fine yesterday and it was colder?

Okay, it's fuel, gotta be fuel. I commute, so I change fuel often but it's never really empty ... Tank off and trained completely, nothing in there, fill it up with premium, add fuel system cleaner and give it a really good run, wind it up to find there's no dead spots in the powerband.... what the **** is going on?

What the ****, service time - oil, filters, coolant, change what can be changed. Next day .... whir whir whir.

This was about the point i found out holding the clutch in works I usually start the bike then push it out the garage and close the garage just to warm it up a bit more as I'm 2 mins from the highway. So another Saturday fitting a new clutch cable, cleaning and checking the clutch sensor area ... no difference.

I was aware for a while that what changed just before the issue started was my route to work. With less people going into the city I was saving myself the toll and running through the city traffic rather than going around, but I thought I'd ruled out most of the issues that could come from that!

Even if the neutral sensor is not the problem I'm just so happy to have something else to try. I was getting close to giving up and taking it to the dealer with the list of things tried so far but have been putting it off as I learnt long ago going to a mechanic with a intermittent issue that's not a simple fix can get real expensive!
 

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Well done for all your diagnostic work, that's exactly the route I would take for this problem That was before this neutral switch highlight. But I would never discount checking the battery is tip top. 👍
 

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Even if the neutral sensor is not the problem I'm just so happy to have something else to try.
As per your description of your problem, yes the problem is in the neutral sensor been worn out. It seems that sensor is used only in the engine start up check, therefore you can choose to just "learn" the problem and avoid it by pulling the clutch while starting up the engine, or else periodically replace the Neutral Sensor Switch which is prone to worn out time and time again.

If replacing the Neutral Sensor Switch is your way, this how-to video could be of help for you (warning, thick Iberian Spanish accent spoken there):
Note: the tutorial on how to replace the Neutral Sensor Switch begins at 5:30, before that the fine gentleman in the video is just testing whether some electrical component is broken in the bike, which it was not.
 

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Well done for all your diagnostic work, that's exactly the route I would take for this problem That was before this neutral switch highlight. But I would never discount checking the battery is tip top. 👍
Thanks! Yeah I was pretty sure it had to be the battery at first, even after checking it's voltage and health, all my previous experience was still directing me that way lol. Gotta say the shop were amazing. I was absolutely not expecting them to replace it under warranty as I knew it was likely going to pass the test they do as I've had car batteries pass those tests before then not charge the next day. So I pretty much went in with full grovel mode activated "look I just charged it, AND I've been maintaining it, AND it doesn't do it all the time, BUT it has to be the battery", and sure enough they tested it and said it looked good, but that if I just charged it they couldn't be sure, asked a couple of questions about it being cold, and how it started, just replaced it with no fuss. I feel bad now I know it wasn't the cause, but they certainly got a repeat customer out of it!
 

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As per your description of your problem, yes the problem is in the neutral sensor been worn out. It seems that sensor is used only in the engine start up check, therefore you can choose to just "learn" the problem and avoid it by pulling the clutch while starting up the engine, or else periodically replace the Neutral Sensor Switch which is prone to worn out time and time again.

If replacing the Neutral Sensor Switch is your way, this how-to video could be of help for you (warning, thick Iberian Spanish accent spoken there):
Note: the tutorial on how to replace the Neutral Sensor Switch begins at 5:30, before that the fine gentleman in the video is just testing whether some electrical component is broken in the bike, which it was not.
Awesome, thanks so much!
I think I'll order 2 in that case as they look so cheap and postage does not lol. Honestly all this info is such a load off for my sanity and puts my mind at ease - not being able to find the cause has had me worried every day that it's just going to cut out at the lights and not restart.

Thanks again!
I'll post back when my sensors/switches arrive :)
 

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Awesome, thanks so much!
I think I'll order 2 in that case as they look so cheap and postage does not lol. Honestly all this info is such a load off for my sanity and puts my mind at ease - not being able to find the cause has had me worried every day that it's just going to cut out at the lights and not restart.

Thanks again!
I'll post back when my sensors/switches arrive :)
Update: My switches just arrived. Ordered through webmoto to Australia, unfortunately no local stock & a local dealer that didn't want to sell me the part without getting me to bring it in, so it came from the UK, I'll try fitting them this weekend. Over the last two weeks I've become more certain this is the issue as advised. Now I know what to look for, I've not had the issue one single time whilst holding the clutch in over that time, and have deliberately not charged the bike, It's also been pretty cold in the mornings this week and the bike doesn't bat an eye ... so long as you hold the clutch in.

Will update when the weekend comes. For anyone playing along at home, once finding out my part would come from the other side of the world during covid, I did try taking my existing sensor off and giving it a good old fashioned electronic component clean with 99% iso and ... I think it got a little better ... although that could also be pure optimism! It's definitely worn, but the action did seem a bit better after cleaning, and it felt like it was struggling less in testing.
 

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Update: My switches just arrived. Ordered through webmoto to Australia, unfortunately no local stock & a local dealer that didn't want to sell me the part without getting me to bring it in, so it came from the UK, I'll try fitting them this weekend. Over the last two weeks I've become more certain this is the issue as advised. Now I know what to look for, I've not had the issue one single time whilst holding the clutch in over that time, and have deliberately not charged the bike, It's also been pretty cold in the mornings this week and the bike doesn't bat an eye ... so long as you hold the clutch in.

Will update when the weekend comes. For anyone playing along at home, once finding out my part would come from the other side of the world during covid, I did try taking my existing sensor off and giving it a good old fashioned electronic component clean with 99% iso and ... I think it got a little better ... although that could also be pure optimism! It's definitely worn, but the action did seem a bit better after cleaning, and it felt like it was struggling less in testing.
Very well, I am all eager ears about what you find out when you finally get around to having some time to replace your Neutral sensor switch.

May I ask for a link to the replacement Neutral sensor switch you bought?
 

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Yes, I would like to know that also. I think I have started to have the problem, and I can't find the neutral switch on the parts diagrams on Revzilla.
 

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Update:
Changing the switch seems to have fixed the problem!

the replacement switch came with a much thinner washer (about half as thick) which meant when I first put it in the bike always thought it was in neutral... which technically worked I guess, but wasn’t the best lol. I took it back out and used the original washer and it’s now working as expected. I’ll update if it turns out not to have been the issue!

I got my switches from webmoto, link:

In the likely event the link changes, just search by bike - it’s in the list of all parts for that model.

A photo of the new and old switch side by side, the old switch was about 1mm worn down. Hope it helps!

72444
 

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Update:
Changing the switch seems to have fixed the problem!

the replacement switch came with a much thinner washer (about half as thick) which meant when I first put it in the bike always thought it was in neutral... which technically worked I guess, but wasn’t the best lol. I took it back out and used the original washer and it’s now working as expected. I’ll update if it turns out not to have been the issue!

I got my switches from webmoto, link:

In the likely event the link changes, just search by bike - it’s in the list of all parts for that model.

A photo of the new and old switch side by side, the old switch was about 1mm worn down. Hope it helps!

View attachment 72444
Thank you so much for sharing that. I think I will also replace my Neutral Sensor Switch in very short order.
 
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