Here's my 2018 52hp Supersport Race build - Page 2 - Honda CBR500R Forum : CB500F and CB500X Forums
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post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-24-2018, 11:01 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Oyabun View Post
Thanks for sharing more of the details Ryan.

That 0,093 inch or close to 2,3mm total reduction is quite a lot. From seeing the piston at TDC I'd guess it is at least about 0,8-1 mm from the cylinder and the rest is from the head both for reducing squish and not to end up with extraordinary amount of CR. Very interesting.

With that I understand now why the manual cam chain tensioner. Have you degreed the cams by removing the wheels and pushing them back offset, or just by different positioning with the chain? How much did the degreeing contibuted to the current power figures?

I think playing with the ignition can bring some more power - possibly in the midrange. Do you find the Bazzaz much better than the PCV? If yes in what aspect?

Are you still on stock fuel injectors? What is your duty cycle at WOT before rpm cutoff?

Dunno about your race specifications, but a bit of honing on the throttle bodies and new velocity stacks might help with the abrupt trailing off of the torque and help further ponies up at higher revs.

I guess you have read the news that for world SBK ssp300 class from Assen's race weekend Honda has got some adjustments to match the others.

From the article "So for this weekend, the Honda’s minimum weight is now 153kg and its rev limit is 10,200" .... "Honda competitors may also shorten their air funnel and remove the airbox intake tube."
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Originally Posted by Oyabun View Post
Oh. And did you go for the TenKate (STM) slipper clutch at the end?
You can only degree the cams by pressing them on and off of the cam gear. Rotating them doesn't work. You need to retard both the intake and the exhaust to see gains.

You cannot change ignition timing with any piggy back system, we are still waiting for the flash tune capabilities. The Bazzaz was chosen temporarily because of the price and available features, however it doens't allow for rpm increase. I agree we need to adjust the ignition timing to see more gains, until then the stock RPM cut is perfect for where the bike stops making power.

The bike is built to current rules, anything else is not legal: injectors, throttle bodies, stacks, slipper, etc. Maybe next year I will build an all out Superbike with all of the goodies.


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post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-24-2018, 11:07 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Thrasherg View Post
Thanks for sharing the pics, I am surprised that it needs a second radiator, but it all looks to have been well fitted and nicely made.. Let us know how you do in the race series..


Gary
The bike will get hot over the course of the race distance. Keeping it cooler longer just maintains your power so that you don't loose any towards the end of the race. It doesn't "ADD" power, it just protects it from being subtracted. We tested with and without it and we definitely see an advantage using it. The bike will run consistently between 175-185F at race pace forever with the extra radiator vs 200-215F without it. The bike makes much better power under 200F, it looses around 5-7% once it gets above 200F.
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post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-24-2018, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by MraRacer#934 View Post
The bike will get hot over the course of the race distance. Keeping it cooler longer just maintains your power so that you don't loose any towards the end of the race. It doesn't "ADD" power, it just protects it from being subtracted. We tested with and without it and we definitely see an advantage using it. The bike will run consistently between 175-185F at race pace forever with the extra radiator vs 200-215F without it. The bike makes much better power under 200F, it looses around 5-7% once it gets above 200F.
Yup, it is important for power and durability.

Back when Ibwas racing a 600rr in stock 600 we evenremoved the thermostat as we found it impeded cooling - and the water pump require less power to run without it as resistance in the cooling circuit was less. You anyway warm up a racebike properly and in my case we had no races in xold months.
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post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-24-2018, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by MraRacer#934 View Post
You can only degree the cams by pressing them on and off of the cam gear. Rotating them doesn't work. You need to retard both the intake and the exhaust to see gains.

You cannot change ignition timing with any piggy back system, we are still waiting for the flash tune capabilities. The Bazzaz was chosen temporarily because of the price and available features, however it doens't allow for rpm increase. I agree we need to adjust the ignition timing to see more gains, until then the stock RPM cut is perfect for where the bike stops making power.
.
It is much less accurate, but in theory one can just "misalign" the cams by a whole tooth in the desired direction. His is what i meant by rotating. Apparently pressig the cam gear on and off is the right solution.

I might be fooled, but last time I've checked the PCV what I'm using is able to alter ignition timing. Also it can raise the rev limit by 500 rpm, or after signing a waiver to Dynojet and received a code can completely eliminate the rev limit.
It was lon afo when I checked last time but if I'm correcr the ignition map can be alsoselecively chaned for different gears - but not sure if it wa the Grom, or the 500.

I also use a wideband 2 controller from Dynojet to tune on the road, and to change closed loop AFR from 14.7 to 13.5 with the analog output from th wb2.
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post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-25-2018, 02:05 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Oyabun View Post
It is much less accurate, but in theory one can just "misalign" the cams by a whole tooth in the desired direction. His is what i meant by rotating. Apparently pressig the cam gear on and off is the right solution.

I might be fooled, but last time I've checked the PCV what I'm using is able to alter ignition timing. Also it can raise the rev limit by 500 rpm, or after signing a waiver to Dynojet and received a code can completely eliminate the rev limit.
It was lon afo when I checked last time but if I'm correcr the ignition map can be alsoselecively chaned for different gears - but not sure if it wa the Grom, or the 500.

I also use a wideband 2 controller from Dynojet to tune on the road, and to change closed loop AFR from 14.7 to 13.5 with the analog output from th wb2.


I hate Dyno Jet, and their Power Commander. It is junk, it never works, and Dyno Jet never stands behind their warranty. It has cost me race wins, and championships and I will never support their business or products ever again.
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post #16 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-25-2018, 08:07 PM
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I hate Dyno Jet, and their Power Commander. It is junk, it never works, and Dyno Jet never stands behind their warranty. It has cost me race wins, and championships and I will never support their business or products ever again.
Thanks again.
That explains a lot. I've never used Dynojet for racing and in my street applications I find it ok so far.
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post #17 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-28-2018, 06:47 AM
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@MraRacer#934 glad to see you've got the bike up and going now; it's been a few months since I was on the forum last.
With bumping up that compression ratio, you must be itching to get some cams in there to fully release this engine's potential, as we know, the cams are a major limiting factor with this engine.
If you're handy with a rotary tool, there are some gains to be had with a port & polish of the throttle bodies along with match porting the exhaust outlets; doing the TBs was a bit of a time consuming task though, so it's understandable if not to go down that DIY path.
And with that higher CR you absolutely, most definitely should look at running a higher octane fuel in conjunction with altering the ignition timing. With an approx 14:1 CR I'm a little surprised you're not experiencing some knock running 91 octane.
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post #18 of 27 (permalink) Old 06-11-2018, 11:50 AM Thread Starter
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@MraRacer#934 glad to see you've got the bike up and going now; it's been a few months since I was on the forum last.
With bumping up that compression ratio, you must be itching to get some cams in there to fully release this engine's potential, as we know, the cams are a major limiting factor with this engine.
If you're handy with a rotary tool, there are some gains to be had with a port & polish of the throttle bodies along with match porting the exhaust outlets; doing the TBs was a bit of a time consuming task though, so it's understandable if not to go down that DIY path.
And with that higher CR you absolutely, most definitely should look at running a higher octane fuel in conjunction with altering the ignition timing. With an approx 14:1 CR I'm a little surprised you're not experiencing some knock running 91 octane.
This year we decided to build a supersport legal bike which doesn't allow any other modifications to the engine. As far as the ignition timing, we are still wating for the ECU Flash Tune capabilities to be released, until then we cannot change it.

Next year I will build a Superbike which will have everything possibly imaginable done to it. Including a slipper clutch, cams, head work, MR12, balanced crank, polished TB, custom ram air intake and airbox, etc.

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post #19 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-06-2018, 03:25 PM
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So this year I built a 500 Supersport legal race bike. Aside from my normal Production Cup Race Bike builds, I added:

Adreanani Fork Cartridges
Brembo RC 16x18 front brake master cylinder
Custom Aluminum front fairing stay
Custom Extra radiator
Motion Pro radiator catch bottle
Lightened rear subframe
Trail tech water temp gauge
Manual cam chain tensioner
CarbonSmith Race Pace Air Filter
Bazzaz ZFI TC QS (air fuel control, traction control, and quick shifter)
Supersport Motor - 52 hp - 38 ft lbs - stock cams
Supersport Transmission - 7° back cut
are you using the Brembo 16x18 with the stock caliper? I am debating this upgrade on my track bike, curious your feedback on the 16x18 vs stock MC.
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post #20 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-28-2018, 12:58 PM
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Hello Ryan,
Hope all is fine. I was just wondering how the year is so far. Give us an update whenever you happen to have some time.
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