HELP!! Is it ME or my BIKE? Low speed jerk - Honda CBR500R Forum : CB500F and CB500X Forums
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-12-2018, 11:18 AM Thread Starter
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HELP!! Is it ME or my BIKE? Low speed jerk

So lately I’ve realized that if I’m in a parking lot and I’m going slow in 1st or even 2nd gear, maybe 10-15 kph, my bike stutters and feels like it is going to stall unless I give throttle. I know
It definitely shouldn’t give a stall feeling in 1st gear since my rpms are sufficient and I’m slow.

This makes me afraid to ride in slow-speeds without relying on my clutch. Especially when I’m
Making small turns, I’m afraid because I feel like I can’t turn slowly without my clutch or else the bike will stall and definitely drop at that angle.

Is there a problem with the bike or am
I just a bad rider at slow speeds? I know I could use my rear brakes to ride slow while increasing rpms, but It’s not like I’m making any tight turn.

My bike: 1500kms, engine hasn’t been broken in (rpms never pushed past 7.5). I bought the bike with 600kms and I have installed adjustable shorty levers and a two bros slip on exhaust on it. Honestly, I haven’t done any maintenance since I barely rode it. Is there something due for me to replace, align, or adjust?

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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-12-2018, 02:44 PM
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If you're riding at very low speed, you'll probably need to feather the clutch.Possibly the clutch needs adjusting out a little.
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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-12-2018, 04:13 PM
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You say RPMs are sufficient. What speed is the engine at? In my experience, you want at least 3500 RPM, and I would lean more towards 4000 or 4500 to have smooth operation. Less than that and you may get some jerkiness/stuttering. It's normal to feather the clutch at slow speeds anyway. As an added bonus the force from the rotation of the crankshaft will help you stay balanced. You can combine a little bit of rear brake if you want as well to maintain a desired speed or give added control while turning. That can help too. Practice makes perfect. I agree that you should attempt to verify that your clutch cable is adjusted properly. Otherwise, it's probably normal unless as you say your RPM really is high enough so that you shouldn't get the jerkiness. Either way, the clutch cable adjustment is the other likely explanation, and that should be easy enough to fix too.

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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-12-2018, 04:37 PM
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The injection fueling may lead to some jerking at low RPMs. I found it especially bad with the 2013 models.
SO, as stated above, keep the RPMs above 3K and feather the clutch when riding slowly in the practice area.

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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-12-2018, 08:40 PM
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At 10-15 kilometres per hour you're definitely going to want to be covering and feathering the clutch. As well, you probably don't want to be in 2nd gear: In 1st gear, 10kph is just 1550rpm; in 2nd, it's only 1000rpm. For perspective, idle speed is ~1200rpm for these engines.

As mentioned above, at those sorts of speed your riding should be a mix of feeding in some power via feathering the clutch and using some engine RPM, then pulling the clutch and coasting a bit.

Here's some food for thought: At 1000rpm, the engine is turning just 16.7 revolutions per second. A 4-stroke engine produces a power stroke every 2nd revolution of the crank so you're getting a power stroke from a given cylinder roughly 8.3 times per second. Because the crankpins in the twin are phased at 180-degrees instead of 360, you're actually getting one cylinder firing and then the other firing as the first's power stroke ends; it results in an uneven power delivery (180-degrees/540-degrees) that becomes very noticeable at very low RPM and low speed: A power stroke at time t=0 followed by one at time t=30mS and then nothing for the next 90mS; at 10kph and 1000rpm, you will have traveled 8.3cm over the road in the 30mS between the two power strokes and then 25cm -- almost a foot -- before the next power pulse. You're definitely going to feel this.

We tend to think of gasoline engines as almost seamless in their delivery, mostly because most of the time they're operating at high RPM, have high(er) cylinder counts and, in cars at least, have heavy flywheels/torque converters etc that smooth the power delivery. However, a small engine with a low cylinder count, a light flywheel, a rigid mounting to its frame, a manual clutch and a loosely-coupled final drive (chain slack) and an uneven firing pattern is going to make itself very obvious when tooling along at low speed, running at such a low RPM in gear with no clutch slippage.
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-12-2018, 09:04 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackfin View Post
At 10-15 kilometres per hour you're definitely going to want to be covering and feathering the clutch. As well, you probably don't want to be in 2nd gear: In 1st gear, 10kph is just 1550rpm; in 2nd, it's only 1000rpm. For perspective, idle speed is ~1200rpm for these engines.

As mentioned above, at those sorts of speed your riding should be a mix of feeding in some power via feathering the clutch and using some engine RPM, then pulling the clutch and coasting a bit.

Here's some food for thought: At 1000rpm, the engine is turning just 16.7 revolutions per second. A 4-stroke engine produces a power stroke every 2nd revolution of the crank so you're getting a power stroke from a given cylinder roughly 8.3 times per second. Because the crankpins in the twin are phased at 180-degrees instead of 360, you're actually getting one cylinder firing and then the other firing as the first's power stroke ends; it results in an uneven power delivery (180-degrees/540-degrees) that becomes very noticeable at very low RPM and low speed: A power stroke at time t=0 followed by one at time t=30mS and then nothing for the next 90mS; at 10kph and 1000rpm, you will have traveled 8.3cm over the road in the 30mS between the two power strokes and then 25cm -- almost a foot -- before the next power pulse. You're definitely going to feel this.

We tend to think of gasoline engines as almost seamless in their delivery, mostly because most of the time they're operating at high RPM, have high(er) cylinder counts and, in cars at least, have heavy flywheels/torque converters etc that smooth the power delivery. However, a small engine with a low cylinder count, a light flywheel, a rigid mounting to its frame, a manual clutch and a loosely-coupled final drive (chain slack) and an uneven firing pattern is going to make itself very obvious when tooling along at low speed, running at such a low RPM in gear with no clutch slippage.
Wow this was an amazing way to explain it. Thanks for your time. It actually makes sense looking at it this way!
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-12-2018, 09:05 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by squirdle View Post
If you're riding at very low speed, you'll probably need to feather the clutch.Possibly the clutch needs adjusting out a little.
I will check out the clutch! Thank you
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-12-2018, 09:06 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bambams View Post
You say RPMs are sufficient. What speed is the engine at? In my experience, you want at least 3500 RPM, and I would lean more towards 4000 or 4500 to have smooth operation. Less than that and you may get some jerkiness/stuttering. It's normal to feather the clutch at slow speeds anyway. As an added bonus the force from the rotation of the crankshaft will help you stay balanced. You can combine a little bit of rear brake if you want as well to maintain a desired speed or give added control while turning. That can help too. Practice makes perfect. I agree that you should attempt to verify that your clutch cable is adjusted properly. Otherwise, it's probably normal unless as you say your RPM really is high enough so that you shouldn't get the jerkiness. Either way, the clutch cable adjustment is the other likely explanation, and that should be easy enough to fix too.
Thank you for your kind insight. I’m going to pay attentiona next time and see exactly what my rpms are at. It may just be 3000!
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-12-2018, 09:07 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ExTex View Post
The injection fueling may lead to some jerking at low RPMs. I found it especially bad with the 2013 models.
SO, as stated above, keep the RPMs above 3K and feather the clutch when riding slowly in the practice area.
I’m glad to know that you all agree feathering the clutch is ideal. Because of all the videos saying it’s bad to over-use the clutch and is an inexperienced way of riding, I thought I was doing something wrong. Thank you!
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-12-2018, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarCBR500 View Post
Iím glad to know that you all agree feathering the clutch is ideal. Because of all the videos saying itís bad to over-use the clutch and is an inexperienced way of riding, I thought I was doing something wrong. Thank you!
Clutch feathering is an essential skill of motorcycling. I'm not sure what videos would advocate otherwise.

Most motorcycle clutches, including the 500, are "wet" which means they're bathed in oil and are quite tolerant to being slipped as part of regular use. Being bathed in oil prevents the sort of damage you'd see if you tried the same with the dry clutch in a manual transmission car.
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