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Help! CB500F 2013 vs 2016 annoying twitch or on/off effect ?

8K views 21 replies 13 participants last post by  TheSilentMan 
#1 · (Edited)
Hello everyone,

I'm new to the forum. First of all I apologize for any error or misuse of words, I am not a native English speaker.

I just got a driving license and I will soon be a biker.
Last year I tried a CB650F. I was surprised with its agility, light weight and "silence". It gave me an overall "smooth" feeling.
However I will never need all that power. I am a low-profile driver, I never go full throttle, I care about energy/fuel/costs saving and I could definitely enjoy a smaller -yet similiar- motorcycle.

So I am about to purchase a brand new CB500F: the bike, originally released in 2013, was renewed by Honda in 2016, so the 2017 model should only bear differences in colour choice (at least here in Europe).


Sadly no test rides are available at the moment for the CB500F and I am afraid to buy without a test ride.

Today I tried a previously owned 2013 model CB500F, bought in 2015, used for just 4000 miles / 6000 km and now up for sale.
Very comfortable, nice feeling, close to the CB650F, but I noticed a huge lack:

when starting and when switching gear, I could feel an annoying twitch, which gave me a feeling of mechanical "play" (I hope it's the right word), a "loose" feeling. This happened handling the accelerator very gently.
It never happened to me with the CB650F (or with an old CBF 600).

The owner called it "on/off effect" and said it's typical of several 2-cylinder bikes. It didn't feel typical at all to me, it was definitely annoying and turned me off (to the point that I fear something similiar on the 2016 model). I don't even know if "on/off effect" is the right term, but I found some 2013 CB500F reviews speaking of such lack.
However I can't believe Honda releases on the market a great bike with such an annoying issue and no one complains.

A review of the newer 2016 model says the "on/off effect" of the previous 2013 model has finally disappeared, but some other reviewer speaks of a light "on/off effect" on the 2016 model as well.

What do you guys say?
Was it something related to that specific 2013 CB500F bike I rode this morning?
Can any owner of a 2016 CB500F please confirm this does not happen with the new model?

Thanks a lot in advance for your precious suggestions.
 
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#2 · (Edited)
The chain on that bike could very well have had too much slack in it. Chain slack will give that feeling of taking the slack up when changing gears.

All that being said, my 2016 will show a little bit of throttle snatch in the lower gears, when negotiating tight turns shifting down or up between 1st, 2nd, gears. I've just found I need to be mindful of the throttle and clutch inputs, work around that. Almost all EFI bikes have some degree of throttle snatch, EFI designed to replicate a carburetor, they have done a good job with that except for the throttle snatch issues with EFI, and for some reason all the companies have had issue to some degree with throttle snatching, especially when working around the lower gearing.

Keeping the chain adjusted properly helps a little, other then that, it's the type thing you learn to control working the throttle and clutch gingerly down in those lower gears.

Once I get up into 3rd gear it's of no consequence on this bike. Just one of those things you learn to live with. It's an EFI issue found with all EFI bikes I've ever thrown a leg over. I own one Carb bike, it's so much smoother taking throttle and clutch inputs in those lower gears. One thing about EFI, cold starting and consistent idle almost a magical thing. So it's got more plus to it then negative. The MPG on this bike about off the charts, this thing almost runs on freaking air. Vespa like MPG. Putting up with that tiny bit of throttle snatch to me is worth it.

As far as the 2106 650, it also will give you some degree of throttle snatch, it's a characteristic of all EFI machinery.
 
#6 · (Edited)
First of all thanks a lot for your input!

Chain slack will give that feeling of taking the slack up when changing gears.

All that being said, my 2016 will show a little bit of throttle snatch in the lower gears, when negotiating tight turns shifting down or up between 1st, 2nd, gears.
Keeping the chain adjusted properly helps a little, other then that, it's the type thing you learn to control working the throttle and clutch gingerly down in those lower gears.
I was told it could be chain slack as well. I have no experience in maintenance but I guess there should be a workaround to make it better.

My 2016 had a little too much throttle play for my taste. So adjusted the cable adjuster and took out most of it. I left a little. Seemed to help.
This could be one, for instance.


As far as the 2016 650, it also will give you some degree of throttle snatch, it's a characteristic of all EFI machinery.
This is a very interesting and valuable opinion to me.
I rode that 2016 650F and it was The Motorcycle that made me take a decision to own a motorcycle and I can't remember any annoying throttle snatch: so if it was there, it was so negligible that I didn't notice, just like (I think) I shouldn't have noticed it with the 500F I rode yesterday.
So perhaps there was something wrong with that specific bike I tried, as suspected:

I have a 2015 F model, which you should definately try, which I bought new. I would suspect that the bike you rode has some issues. Could be chain slack or bad gas or something else. I wouldn't describe the CB as having a snatchy throttle but with any EFI bike you will be able to identify a spot where there's a sort of flat spot.

Do yourself a favor and try to demo another one. By your description of your riding style this bike is PERFECT for you. Especially the F model.
While it's hard to find another 500F to try here, I will keep searching. I almost feel like this bike was designed to fit with my need, I am still way too interested to be discouraged, because, as said before, fuel consumption is impressive and
Putting up with that tiny bit of throttle snatch to me is worth it.
Totally.


I wouldn't worry about a new 2016 bike. I have one and find the shifter to be great. There's negligible on-off effect.
Thanks a lot. I am looking for some opinions of actual owners and experienced bikers before making an important purchase. I am starting to think that I probably tried the wrong 500F.
 
#3 ·
Sonicboom above has hit the nail squarely on the head. No other comments are needed.
But that does not stop me.

I have a 2015 F model, which you should definately try, which I bought new. No EFI bike is as smooth as a well sorted carbureted bike ( and you have to maintain the heck out of carbs if they are to remain that way). But the CB is very good.
Sonicboom did not mention that he is an expert rider and he pushes his bike very hard. Most riders will not get to the point where they notice as much as he does. Me, I have not noticed anything yet.

I would suspect that the bike you rode has some issues. Could be chain slack or bad gas or something else. I wouldn't describe the CB as having a snatchy throttle but with any EFI bike you will be able to identify a spot where there's a sort of flat spot.

Do yourself a favor and try to demo another one. By your description of your riding style this bike is PERFECT for you. Especially the F model.
 
#4 ·
My 2016 had a little too much throttle play for my taste.
So adjusted the cable adjuster and took out most of it. I left a little.
Seemed to help.
 
#5 ·
Silent Man - excellent post with a clear and concise explanation of what was going on with the 2013.


I wouldn't worry about a new 2016 bike. I have one and find the shifter to be great. There's negligible on-off effect. Honda did a typically good job with the EFI on this low cost bike.


I had a 2010 Triumph Bonneville which was difficult to launch smoothly. It was definitely ON too much with the initial twist of the throttle and hard to impress a passenger with my skill at smooth takeoffs.
 
#7 ·
The only difference between the F and the R , besides the plastics, is the seating position. Mechanically they are the same bike. So you can tell the difference in comfort just by trying them out in a showroom.

You can feel the loose throttle without even starting the bike. There should only be an eight of an inch or so of free play in the throttle before you feel the resistance of the cables. And it should snap back quickly and fully in place when released. After you become familiar with bikes it will be the first thing you notice when you get on it. That and the front brake lever play.

The other thing about a naked bike as opposed to a fully faired bike is that during a ride if you feel you want to look at the motor for an oil or water leak, you can just do it without removing plastics by the roadside.
I've had fully faired bikes that the plastics had to be removed every time you changed the oil. It gets old.
The wind protection is nice on the fully faired bikes but I'll never own another one.
 
#10 ·
I ride a 2016 and the only thing I have noticed with the throttle is when trying to hold a steady 5 to 7 MPH it seems quite touchy, hard to get it just right. I can get around that by shifting to 2nd gear and letting it idle. Other than that I have not noticed anything unusual about the throttle. It is just a great little bike for running around town, light, so easy to ride that it's more like a bicycle. The handgrips are too small for my taste, my throttle hand tended to cramp after an hour or so. I got around that by wrapping the grips with bicycle handlebar tape.
 
#14 ·
Exactly ^ this. I don't think you'll find a bike that isn't going to be a little bit "touchy" at very low speeds. There are typically two approaches to stable, low-speed riding: dragging the rear brake or slipping the [wet] clutch. Either works, and both are useful skills to develop. You can even combine them. It's critical to staying in control while maneuvering at low speeds (no feet off the pegs!). It can tire your left hand out though if you're doing a lot of clutch work so the rear brake is probably the more comfortable option, but combining them is probably most effective. The rear brake doesn't do a whole lot the rest of the time. You can imagine that is it's primary function. The other thing that I can say is that the rotation of the engine can also help with keeping the bike stable. It's no way to hyper-mile, but if you keep the engine revved up while slipping the clutch it will help with stability and avoid that jerky feeling. The same thing is true when accelerating. You can get rid of any jerkiness if you increase the engine speed, but you won't get peak economy from the engine this way. I normally keep the engine at 4000-6000 RPM at all times while moving and I probably am lucky to get 45 mpg (and wouldn't be surprised if it was less).
 
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#16 ·
If I'm riding 5-7 mph, say in traffic, I know I'm slipping clutching a lot. I can't think of a situation when I'd actually ride that slow with the clutch fully out.
I've done it on my other bike just to show my friends that the bike will take off just by letting the clutch out at idle, no throttle. Ou side of that..nada.
 
#17 ·
You got to learn that friction point with the clutch and let it slip a little bit more often with EFI bikes. It's the nature of the beast. That rear brake drag braking method what I've been using working my way up in slow traffic along with slipping the clutch. It's a bit more work with EFI at lower speeds to get smooth transitions. It's annoying sometimes, makes you feel like the first day you learn to ride a motorcycle.

I ride my carb bike and you can really feel the difference with low speed transitions. Night and day.
 
#18 ·
You probably won't run into this on a Honda, but some bikes can have weak clutch springs or a pressure plate,
or have some kind of obstruction that keeps the clutch from fully engaging when you let the lever out.
In the miniscule time it takes for the clutch to engage, when it does, it feels like it snatches, or grabs, or jumps.
Highly unlikey that's what's happening with the Honda, but it's possible on some bikes.
 
#19 ·
I just got a brand new 2016 CB500F and it feels totally different from the used one that I tried and left me with doubts.
While an on/off effect can be perceived, it's nowhere close to what I had experienced with that used bike. It can be avoided getting used to a clever use of the clutch.
I wish to thank everyone for their thoughts on this subject.
 
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