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CBR500R engine upgrades

17K views 31 replies 11 participants last post by  GlenAnderson 
#1 ·
Hi all, greetings and i hope everyone is doing well.

I am part of a Formula Student team for a university in the UK, and currently we are using a CBR500R engine as our powertrain unit. We are currently looking into upgrading it, and was wondering can the gurus here help me with :

1. Which part of the engine is particularly weak and needs upgrades?
2. Which brand to go for?

Cheers!
 
#2 ·
hello,

hope you are having fun with your project,
as for the mods, i assume you are using the EU version of the engine and you won't be using the catalytic converter the biggest restriction then will be the airbox and ECU,

if you will be using your custom airbox and velocity stacks, then you have one problem less, if not, look at this topic http://www.cbr500riders.com/forum/engine-technical-discussion/58233-high-flow-intake-mod.html to get some info about what can be done with the aitbox to let more air in, also the european velocity stacks are restricted, as you will find in that topic, you have two options, either cut the restriction out, order some really pricey (but nice) velocity stacks from Slovakia or do what i did, order new velocity stacks from outside of EU (for example US on this site Partzilla: OEM Motorcycle Parts, ATV Parts, Marine Parts the shipping is the cheapest i've seen to EU (some of the) states)

as for the ECU, i would recommend a power commander, you can adjust the fuel maps and increase the rev. limiter a bit

as for what this engine is capable of, i recommend this thread http://www.cbr500riders.com/forum/honda-cbr500-member-rides/58249-cbr500r-primmed-ver-2-mod-max.html that's probably the most someone was able to get out of this engine on this forum and you can find fuel maps attached there that you can use as a baseline

depending on your budget you can do what @tothezenith did with the custom cam shafts and there was another option that @Oyabun mentioned with pistons from the japanese version (cbr400r), that will increase the compression ratio a little bit

there are a lot of skilled guys here, so if you have any question, just ask
 
#3 ·
Hello,and welcome to the forums.
Yamato got you started good and I've lso sent you a PM.

As a start we've found no inherent weaknesses of the CBR500 engine. Having said that - it is not a particularly performance oriented engine,nor specificly light. So unless your class restrictions dictate otherwise a well established CBR600F inline four even with an intake restrictor might still be a better choice if performance is in question.

I believe all gearheads lurking around this forum (not many I would say) are interested.
Please share more details about your project and we might be able to assist you further.

p.s. depending on your budget, a wiseco high compression piston set, a performance cam, a decent cylinder head job and a good flowing exhaust driven by a power commander would give the best performance.
 
#5 ·
Classroom environment to learn what the up grades will do to increase performance. Won't matter what engine they use. It's more about the principle of engine dynamics then it is the actual gains. Learning experience.

Actually it would be interesting to see what they can do to get the motor up on HP and torque values.

I've not seen much interest in one of these motors as far as performance up grades.
 
#6 ·
I'm not seeing many upgrades either, though I'd like to. Bikes I have owned in the past had plenty o power as it was.
I'm interested in the project for sure but they're going against the big H who have designed this motor to give out a low horse power to meet a certain spec..and that's it.
But if these guys can figure out an easy way I'm all ears, another 10 HP wouldn't hurt.

tothezenith has given a good go at it so he can weigh in heavily in on the subject.
 
#8 · (Edited)
Do you mean Formula SAE team? If so I was part of it for awhile, I was involved with starting a team at my university and after graduating I volunteered to be a judge for a couple of years. I can tell you from what I've seen during those years that a CBR500 would be a terrible choice. Not that it wouldn't work, but you'll be at a huge disadvantage. The majority of teams use 600 engines and they're putting out around 80-90 hp on average with the air restriction plate per the FSAE rules. You will have to spend a lot more money and time just to see 50 hp, when you could buy a used zx6r, r6, cbr600, gsxr600 engine for around $1000-$1500. Our team used an '09 ZX6R engine which they converted to run on ethanol but that was only because they had some big sponsorship from local ethanol state entity, and part of the deal was they had to run ethanol regardless of the engine.

The only other cars I've seen that were fairly competitive without running a 600 I4 engine were running some sort of Aprilia and/or KTM V-twins that were around 500-550 cc's. They lacked power too but not quite as bad. I think they were getting around 60-70 hp if I recall. What is your team's budget if you don't mind me asking?

Now with that said, assuming the competition is running in the same format as it is here (after all it is international), the key things for you guys to be successful are:

1. Reliability
2. Reliability
3. Reliability
4. Driver skill
5. Reliability
6. Handling
7. Reliability
8. Lightweight
9. Reliability
10. Power

Get the picture? ;)...many teams can't finish certain events or even start them because of problems with the cars, and end up with zero points. Many teams don't even pass tech inspection (the design part) for various reasons and can't even compete then. It is ABSOLUTELY crucial that you don't **** with things in the hope to get that extra 1 hp or shave that last ounce from your suspension components, and you end up crippling the car right when it matters. I've seen students stay up for countless nights and hours spent at the competition trying to fix **** only to be disappointed that they can't compete. Some of the reasons and failures I've seen were just ridiculous, and very dumb mistakes, but easy to make when you've slept like 6 hours in the last 3 days combined. Also, put people in the car that know how to drive and make them practice before. Finishing up the car on the last day gives you no chance to practice, and most people suck at driving (performance type of driving), despite what they may tell you.
 
#14 ·
Hi SBK, thanks for your reply and input as a former judge too ! That mustve been a good experience. I was not part of the team that chose the CBR unit as our powertrain option but i think ( if not mistaken) last year we ran a KTM unit and suffer from reliability issue and find it hard and expensive to source for parts. So that was the crucial point as youve pointed out. Reliability is top in the list in any form of motorsport. I'll also raise the different engine options that you mentioned and will definitely take those into consideration too ! Budget of the team so far unfortunately is confidential.
 
#10 · (Edited)
The engine does have good potential, but outright hp can't really be compared; need to look at it as a percentage gain. With the mods done to mine, it's somewhere between a 35-40% increase, and that's with a fairly mild cam swap. (57.5hp at the wheels, but with a 7% taller gear; stock engines typically 42-43 wheel hp).
Airbox, filter, throttle bodies, camshafts, full exhaust with port matching, power commander (some mods minimal cost, just your own labor) - there isn't much change from AUD ~$2K. Certainly a great learning curve. Next step to get more out of it would be to increase the compression I reckon.
 
#19 ·
@Nemo1966 it's similar in other countries too ... at least here in Slovakia it's the same, only a technical check is required (after 4 years if it is a new machine and then every 2 years) where they check if your brakes are braking and if your lights are okay and stuff like that ... but the emissions check is not (yet) required, the only country from EU i know about where it is mandatory is Germany (but then again i have not researched this topic at all, so i only know what i encountered passively)
 
#20 ·
@Nemo1966 it's similar in other countries too ... at least here in Slovakia it's the same, only a technical check is required (after 4 years if it is a new machine and then every 2 years) where they check if your brakes are braking and if your lights are okay and stuff like that ... but the emissions check is not (yet) required, the only country from EU i know about where it is mandatory is Germany (but then again i have not researched this topic at all, so i only know what i encountered passively)

The EU dictatorship will collapse in the next 5 years anyway :nerd:
 
#22 ·
@Nemo1966 although i agree, that some regulations are just plainly silly, i do think that EU as a whole has it's place and role, BUT this is in no way a place to discuss this, this is a place to discuss potential engine enhancements for the CB 500 class engine

BUT laws that control engine enhancements is a massive part of the discussion, just like the loudness of exhausts are governed by law, you can get you fined if you don't comply (like many don't). As someone mentioned before, if you remove a cat from a CB500 in Germany you will get fined and also have the bike removed from the road until it is restored. It happens that many of our petty laws are inflicted on us by the EU dictatorship. BTW the EU dictatorship has no place and no role for the UK - we voted out!!!


If someone came up with an enhancement that added long blades to the end of the handlebars then someone would soon start spouting the LAWS it contravined.


My point: staying within the LAW whilst performing/discussing potential engine enhancements is a necessary evil and if you cannot discuss it on a motorcycle FORUM then where else would you discuss them?




.
 
#23 ·
@Nemo1966 although that is true, this particular theme is about a race use of the engine, so no laws really apply ... except for the regulations enforced by the responsible governing body and to be honest, i have no idea about those :)

and the fact that UK voted to exit the EU is fine, it's the choice of 50+% of eligible voters and everyone should respect that, but then again UK has to respect, that there are also countries other than UK in the world, so you know ...
 
#24 ·
I think the important thing to take from this is the idea of blades on handle bars. It has merit.

In South Australia there is no yearly or whatever check of vehicles (no MOT or WOF etc) and the world has not come to an end.

The UK, by definition, respects there are other countries in the world.

And the EU sucks butt.
 
#25 ·
I think the important thing to take from this is the idea of blades on handle bars. It has merit.

Haha that made me laugh >:)

In South Australia there is no yearly or whatever check of vehicles (no MOT or WOF etc) and the world has not come to an end.
An MOT Test (Ministry of Transport Test) every year is generally in place to generate revenue. It's basically a motoring stealth tax :frown: we have many in the UK



The UK, by definition, respects there are other countries in the world.
And the EU sucks butt.
Obviously!0:)
 
#26 ·
I'm old enough to remember very well what it used to be like commuting by motorcycle in London, back in the days before Euro pollution levels, catalytic converters and "all that jazz". If you'd ever sat behind a routemaster on the Euston Road, with your eyes streaming and your head spinning, or laundered your jeans by hand after a couple of days riding in it, then you'd maybe hold such devices and regulations in higher regard.
 
#27 ·
I heard or read a story about some city in the U.K., maybe London, that at a certain point the pollution was so bad that a man had to walk in front of the buses so that he could direct the driver because the driver couldn't see that far down the road. Is this true?
The story specified pollution not fog.
 
#29 ·
The smog that London suffered in the 1950s was pretty appalling. It was before my time, but my father talked about driving from one white line to the next, with his head out of the window of his lorry.
 
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